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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Same post different day installment
- Ambitously and zealously intending to finish this one post , adriverhoef You used the word 'zanft' again and it reminded me of this song - België (Is Er Leven Op Pluto...) = Belgium (Is there life on Pluto?) - performed by Het Goede Doel (= The Good Cause) … ![]() Refrain (translated): Is there life on Pluto / Can you dance upon the moon / Is there a place between the stars / where I can go to. ![]() ![]() My first stop on my roadtrip to the Netherlands was in the outskirts of Groningen. A Bastion Hotel. I’m on their mailing list. I gives me a kick to receive these newsletters from a few hotels. They send me on affordable dream trips. I just received this message: * Starting at the beginning of 2018 the Bastion Hotels team will cross through Peru and Bolivia, to finish the prestigious rally in Argentina. ![]() ![]() * Bastion Hotels appreciates her guests very much, so you will receive a free official Team Bastion Hotels - Dakar Rally backpack at your next stay at Bastion Hotels. See, that is a little interesting: ’appreciates her guests’ Is that because ’Hotels’ is femininum and the pronomen ’her’ refers to ’Hotels’? Back to business ![]() The German 'zanft' is 'zacht' in Dutch. Zacht. Yes, and to me its sound is as pleasant as its meaning in both languages. Many claim that German is a ’not-so-pretty-sounding’ language, so therefore I want to mention my favorite word in German that makes up for any disharmony: Bücherei. And they have books ![]() Milcherei is another favorite. And they have milk ![]() It must be the ’cherei’ that I fall for. Oh, well, managed to cover a few sentences of yours there and went on a thoughtassociationspree - I would think the probability of another installment is imminent |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2181 Status: Recently Active Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
What if ’little mermaid’ was a meerman ? I guess you're asking me. Let me take you back to the beginning of this thread. It's meant as a place where we can play with language. For language afficionados. Anyone can join the party. I don't care if you're a seahorse or a jellyfish. ![]() What would 'trekpleister' be in German? 'Zugplaster' (lit.), else just 'Attraktion' (fig.), my dictionary says. Bastion Hotels appreciates her guests very much, so you will receive a free official Team Bastion Hotels - Dakar Rally backpack at your next stay at Bastion Hotels.’appreciates her guests’ That's indeed interesting. You see, "Bastion Hotels" seems to be a trademark, as their logo stays the same when you switch the language of their website:German - English - Dutch Also, Wikipedia explains that Bastion Hotel Groep is a Dutch hotel-chain. So "Bastion Hotels" is a company name and that takes a singular form. At least, in Dutch it does, according to this page and the book "Stijlwijzer schriftelijk rapporteren" (2007) by Arjen Ligtvoet. Pluto. Why is Pluto no longer a planet? Short introductory answer: "The discovery of other icy objects similar in size to Pluto forced a re-think by the IAU". Pluto is now one of the icy Kuiper Belt Objects and as such a dwarfplanet. Who is Kuiper? "Gerard Peter Kuiper was a Dutch–American astronomer". So the prestigious Paris-Dakar Rally goes to South America. I've looked it up. "The Dakar Rally (or simply "The Dakar"; formerly known as the "Paris–Dakar Rally") is an annual rally raid organised by the Amaury Sport Organisation. Most events since the inception in 1978 were from Paris, France, to Dakar, Senegal, but due to security threats in Mauritania, which led to the cancellation of the 2008 rally, races since 2009 have been held in South America."You're asking interesting questions, mermaid, I guess we're all learning. ![]() The Dutch -erij is equivalent to the German -erei, English -ery, French -erie, Italian -eria, Spanish -ería, Portuguese -aria, Swedish -eri: bakkerij / Bäckerei / bakery / boulangerie / panetteria / panadería / padaria / bageri brouwerij / Brauerei / brewery / brasserie / birreria / cervecería / fábrica de cerveja / bryggeri slagerij / Fleischerei / butcher's / boucherie / macelleria / carnicería / talho / slakteri wasserij / Wäscherei / laundry / blanchisserie / lavanderia / lavandería / lavandaria / tvätt loterij / Lotterie / lottery / loterie / lotteria / lotería / lotaria / lotteri More words: smederij, melkerij, (boek)binderij, (glas)blazerij, (was)blekerij, fokkerij, baggerij, drukkerij, drogerij, gieterij, yes … the list goes on and on … ![]() EDIT: added 'brouwerij' [Edit 1 times, last edit by adriverhoef at Nov 13, 2017 11:01:26 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Intant marshmallow installment
----------------------------------------- plus one more rate on the post I'm determined to finish I don't care if you're a seahorse or a jellyfish. Or blue or green. OK. I do. But don't be stupid, man. OK, I’ll try my best, ma'am ![]() But you’re right. I tend to behave as if I own this thread, and that you were or I were ![]() ![]() ![]() And also I should stop wondering aloud about Pluto and the Dakar Rally, and look up these things myself instead of making you my lexicon. ’appreciates her guests’ I’m well aware that Bastion Hotels is a trademark with ’Hotels’ ’cause they want to emphasize they are a hotel chain with many hotels nationwide in the Netherlands and therefore use the plural form of the noun: ’Hotels’. I suppose I shouldn’t have written ’appreciates’ in bold, ’cause due to the above ^^^ cause, the singularum ’s’ is logical to most (although it doesn’t come natural to Danes). What I was after was ’her’ guests. Her? The English translation wouldn’t care if it’s logo was blue or green, it doesn’t see a female, I think. If it could be ’sie’ in German, I shouldn’t be able to say. But I think it would be a stretch. Sie schätz ihre Gäste? Nah ... Interesting stuff about the Leiden alumnus Gerard Peter Kuiper. University of Arizona – that’s where I went to see/hear ’Hairspray’ I’m a stranger to musicals, but it was good. The main reason was that it was played in the auditorium designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. ![]() Also the two men I met in Grote Markt in Haarlem: Laurens Janszoon Coster Typografphiae litteris mobilibus e metallo fusis inventor (some think he did it earlier than Gutenberg) and Harry Mulisch whose book ’De Aanslag’ translated into Danish I read were interesting. Okay! You are a team captain. Then you cannot go camping. But there are ways: Lookka! Yes, there are many ’ei’ ’ia’ words. I only wanted to promote ’Bücherei’ and ’Milcherei’ ’cause many often don’t think German sounds pretty. These two words are Schlagsahne in meine Ohren. --- o --- In the song België (Is Er Leven Op Pluto...) they prefer Flemish (the language that is spoken in Flanders "want dat taaltje is zo zacht" (for that language is so gentle)). So we could say that people from the Netherlands prefer Flemish (a Dutch dialect). So, these Het Goede Doel don’t want to live in the Netherlands, but they would like a Dutch dialect (Flemish) to be their language for gentleness reasons. That makes you wonder: Do the Belgians to the north of Bruxelles/Brussels regard Flemish as a Dutch dialect?Actually, "There are four principal Dutch dialects in the Flemish region (Flanders): Brabantian, East Flemish, West Flemish and Limburgish. (…) "Belgian Dutch" is slightly different from Dutch spoken in The Netherlands, mainly in pronunciation, lexicon and expressions. Dutch speakers from the Netherlands and Dutch speakers from Belgium may not be able to communicate fluently with each other because Flemish uses different nouns and different pronunciation, and has evolved at a different pace from modern Dutch." Funny, the Wiki calls the language north of Bruxelles/Brussels ”Dutch”, not Flemish or Vlaams (isn’t it called so as well?). I didn’t think the diffence could be that big. It sounds as if it is almost more apart than Norwegian-Swedish-Danish are from each other. Would you say you have a ’Queen’s Dutch’ in the Netherlands, a ’standard pronunciation’ that is regarded as the ’correct’ Dutch. One that for example is used by your TV and radio stations? BTW: Do you have a state run ’public service’ broadcast corporation? We do. The DR (Denmark’s Radio) where you met Tykke Ida is that one. Until 1984 DR held a monopoly over all broadcasting. I think I mentioned ’Radio Mercur’ – the pirate radio - that sent pop music 1958-1962 to the Copenhagen area from a ship in international waters between Denmark and Sweden. DR tried to strangle it, but had no success. Gradually, however DR softened and began broadcasting music that young people liked much to the initiative of Jørgen de Mylius'. At the time we also listened to Radio Luxemburg ![]() You, yourself, do you speak a dialect or the ’Queen’s Dutch’? Are dialects discouraged or encouraged in the Netherlands? In Denmark almost all dialects were erased in public life (media) at some point, but now they are encouraged (within limits, ’cause people from Bornholm (the island south of Sweden) speak very ’half Swedish’ (they don’t like to hear that) and many dialects in Jutland (our peninsula glued to Germany) are difficult to understand, too. Actually, I often find Norwegian and Swedish easier to understand than many of the really profound dialects. So, in Denmark it’s not much different, really. Words ... had only my ex been that wise ![]() EDIT: Fixed a wrong link EDIT II: ![]() [Edit 2 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 13, 2017 11:35:11 PM] |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2181 Status: Recently Active Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
In the song België (Is Er Leven Op Pluto...) they prefer Flemish (the language that is spoken in Flanders "want dat taaltje is zo zacht" (for that language is so gentle)). So we could say that people from the Netherlands prefer Flemish (a Dutch dialect). So, these Het Goede Doel don’t want to live in the Netherlands, but they would like a Dutch dialect (Flemish) to be their language for gentleness reasons. That makes you wonder: Do the Belgians to the north of Bruxelles/Brussels regard Flemish as a Dutch dialect?Actually, "There are four principal Dutch dialects in the Flemish region (Flanders): Brabantian, East Flemish, West Flemish and Limburgish. (…) "Belgian Dutch" is slightly different from Dutch spoken in The Netherlands, mainly in pronunciation, lexicon and expressions. Dutch speakers from the Netherlands and Dutch speakers from Belgium may not be able to communicate fluently with each other because Flemish uses different nouns and different pronunciation, and has evolved at a different pace from modern Dutch." Funny, the Wiki calls the language north of Bruxelles/Brussels ”Dutch”, not Flemish or Vlaams (isn’t it called so as well?). I didn’t think the diffence could be that big. It sounds as if it is almost more apart than Norwegian-Swedish-Danish are from each other. Would you say you have a ’Queen’s Dutch’ in the Netherlands, a ’standard pronunciation’ that is regarded as the ’correct’ Dutch. One that for example is used by your TV and radio stations? ![]() Do you have a state run ’public service’ broadcast corporation? Yes: NPO (Nederlandse Publieke Omroep = Dutch Public Broadcasting), in Flanders (Vlaanderen): VRT.We had pop music broadcast from the North Sea by Radio Veronica (1960-1974) and Radio Noordzee. In 1974 they had to close down ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I'm afraid you didn't mention ’Radio Mercur’, but I have a special interest in Radio Veronica and the 'Veronica Top 40' (really ![]() ![]() I also listened to Radio Luxemburg for a few years after they closed down the radio stations in 1974. I remember The Ultimate Warlord especially as one of my ultimate favourites. It's from 1979, so it seems. Are dialects discouraged or encouraged in the Netherlands? Not that I know. If you don't understand someone who speaks in dialect, you can always ask what they're saying, at least you can try to. ![]() ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by adriverhoef at Nov 14, 2017 1:17:31 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
One more fractional installment
- concerning the post by adriverhoef that I'm determined to work my way through from a-z Distraction 1: Why is it called a-z in Danish? I should be a-å if there were any logic to it. Yesterday, Sandy Coast's Hans Vermeulen died at the age of 70. Maybe you know True Love That's A Wonder, I See Your Face Again, The Eyes Of Jenny or Summertrain No, Sandy Coast was not known in Denmark. I’m afraid ’En betjee’ as discussed earlier is about it along with ’The Blue Diamonds’. Still, not bad. I don’t think we knew anything French not to mention Belgian at all.Did you know any Danish music at that time or later? You would find 'de zachte g' mostly in Limburg and Noord-Brabant (in the south-east). I have practised ’zacht’ quite a bit, and to me it has two hurdles: the voiced ’z’ – as with rolling 'r's we don’t do 'voiced' in Denmark at all – and the the ’cht’ which also is foreign to this northerly Indian tribe. In fact the ’a’ is what I handle the best ![]() You could also saw with two saws: Zagen met twee zagen I don’t find that strange. We can ’save med to save’, too. However, we cannot ’hammer with two hammers’, because the plural of the noun 'hammer' (which is pronounced without a trace of 'stress') changes it into ’hamrer’. 'hamre med to hamrer'. You will notice that 'hamre' is chock full of 'stress'. This way it's easy for a Dane to tell if you mean 'two hammers' or the act of 'hammering'. Never thought of this before ![]() ![]() But we can ’file med to file’ (file with two files) - and here both verb and noun are unstressed - and ’høvle med to høvle’ (plane with two planers) and here both words are unstressed, too. Funny how it seems to be something that primarily takes place with tools. Distraction 2: In German class today I learned that the Germans try to avoid using the 'man'. It is far to unklar für sie. Also, it seems 'you' is preferred over 'one' in English. In Danish we use 'man' quite a bit. A fashion trend tried to work 'you' in the Danish translation 'du' into our daily language to replace 'man'. It was about to win, but to my joy of me, it seems to be on the retreat now. Do Dutchmen use 'man' much or do you prefer some workaround as the English? - still a bit to go with that post |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2181 Status: Recently Active Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Do I know any Danish music from the 50s or 60s (or even much later)? Yes, I do! Let's start with Jan & Kjeld, Nina & Frederik.
Later artists that I know which (probably) haven't been mentioned: Ida Corr, Emmelie de Forest, Mads Langer, Mø, Whigfield, Laid Back, Lukas Graham, Outlandish, DJ Visage, Safri Duo, Toy-Box, Junior Senior, Alphabeat, The Asteroids Galaxy Tour. Do Dutchmen use 'man' much or do you prefer some workaround as the English? In Dutch it is 'men' of course ![]() Men kan de weg niet gebruiken. (One cannot use the road.) U kunt de weg niet gebruiken. (You cannot use the road.) Je kan de weg niet gebruiken. (You can't use the road.) De weg kan niet gebruikt worden. (The road can't be used.) |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
adriverhoef, you know fare more Danish music than I do, which came as no surpise
![]() The magnitude ![]() ![]() I’m particularly glad that you refreshed my mind with ’Nina & Frederik’ whom I had completely forgotten, and whom I liked a lot. And yes, Frederik van Pallandt was Dutch, which you undoubtedly know, too. This picture reveals the Dutch connection – beautiful gable houses. As far as ’you’/’mann’/’men’/’man’ is concerned, to my undivided pleasure we use the word frequently and with rising frequency in time with the ’you’ going out of fashion. People – the fashion conscious ones who had bought the fad and had a need to prove themselves – would for instance say: ’Du kan ikke både blæse og have mel i munden’ meaning ’You cannot have your cake and eat it’ where the correct Danish way would be: 'Man kan ….' because the ’you’ is far too direct. I always tended to take it personally. After all, it was directed at me when expressed this way. In case people adressed me in this aloof fashion, I felt they judged my abilty, and I routinely said something to the effect of: ’Cannot I? How can you know I cannot have my cake and eat it?’ |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2181 Status: Recently Active Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Found a question unanswered …
You see, foreign movies are subtitled in Denmark as opposed to, say Germany, where they are dubbed, and John Wayne says: Hände hoch!" It isn't complex and I hope that your intent isn't robbing people in the streets … the plural of the Dutch word 'hand' is 'handen' and the Dutch word for the German 'hoch' is 'hoog'. However, to express that a process is associated with movement, we are inserting 'om-' or 'op-': kijk omhoog, omlaag, opzij.![]() (In Danish you have 'kro', probably related to the Dutch word 'kroeg' (pub).) Here is another nice Dutch word: flierefluiter. Its meaning is 'nietsnut' (niets = nothing, nut = usefulness), a lazybones, in German: ein Bummelant, ein Faulenzer, ein Nichtsnutz. You'll probably recognize the word 'herberg' (D: Wirtshaus, E: tavern, F: auberge) … ![]() While youtubing I stumbled across a video of a Dutch cabaret performer talking about several Dutch dialects, starting off with the word 'gnoe' (gnu). ![]() The latter two have this meaning: to snigger, to chuckle = gniffelen; in German both 'gniffelen' and 'gnuiven' are translated by the word 'schmunzeln' ![]() ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
This is the GNOE installment
- and it’s absolutely a Laughing Matter (’No Laughing Matter’ by Joseph Heller of ’Catch 22’ fame) First of all, it’s so very nice to see you again ![]() Secondly ’schmultzeln’ is really a funny word ![]() Believe me, I tried. Many times. In vain. It simply cannot be pronounced when having a laughter attack. Probably neither when - or rather if - serious - how to be serious under such circumstances? It really doesn’t get better when moving up to the ’gnoe’ and onwards from there. Oh, my, oh, my …. ![]() We can do ’gn’ too. And ’Kn’ as in Knud (he was a king in England) the Danish name which the Brits had to transform into Canute – which has been shipped back across the North Sea – I thought - as ’kanut’ to mean a slightly suspicious guy – but, alas, it wasn’t. It says it is ’nedertysk’ – ’Niederdeutsch’. There you are. This thread is often very educating to me - I think I know so much ![]() I must say that we have found a far easier way to say ’gnoe’ – ’gnu’. Please notice this very zachte pronuciation – as if this no doubt friendly but somewhat poorly designed animal – were our best friend. 'Gnu' came to us via German ’Gnu’ from Afrikaans 'ghnoe' (and haven't you invented 'ghnoe' and Afrikaans?) derived from 'nqu' … in bantu ![]() There you go. Why don’t you just use ’wildebeest’ which to me is a perfectly Dutch word instead of putting so much enegy into it? Oh, perhaps you just would put 5 kilos of energy into wildebeest also ![]() Thank you for your ’humørbombe’ ’mood bomb’ of a post – one that lifts you up, not one that gets you down ![]() Ach, Google Translate has huge diffeculties processing that one: ’mood bom’ it suggests that cannot possibly be so ![]() ’Stimmung Bombe’ – almost. I would prefer: ’Stimmungsbombe’ or even better as my own dictionary suggests: 'Stimmungskanone’. You really fired your Stimmungskanone, adriverhoef, and I/we stood in its way, and I'm glad I did. I didn’t give your post half the attention it deserves. I shall return ASAP digging into my gigantic backlog - I even have een beetje left from the one I am determined to finish ... ![]() Kong Knud (King Canute) ruled England. He regarded himself so almighty that he could order the waves not to give him wet feet when he sat himself on his throne at the water’s edge … He should have paid more attention in tide table class ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
This would definitely be a bird installment
- nog een beetje shaved off that determined to be finished post of yours, adriverhoef Since this is quite old I chose to quote the entire paragraph: Talking of that, our koolmeezen do ’saw filing’ – you know that tedious work you have to do when the teeth of the saw no longer are sharp. Yes, vijlen, but our birds don't do that, they're falling from the rooftops. ![]() I know you have given me the tools to find everything, only I have not organized these things all that well yet. ![]() There always seem to come a marshmallow in the way ![]() Apart from that, ’vijlen’ is a pretty word. If you take the Danish word ’at file’ the verb and ’fil’ the noun you will find those words are prime examples of ’the stress’. Unfortunately, ’fil’ doesn’t have any soundexample yet, so I have replaced that with ’mil’ (yes, it’s ’mile’) which is pronounced in exactly the same way if you look away from that first letter. ’mi’il’ would be ’fi’il’. However, the act of filing with a tool – shaving material from an item – is pronounced in a soft manner – and we’re back to’file’ which is as zacht as your ’vjilen’. ![]() Anouk is very pleasant to listen to. Our birds don’t fall from the rooftops, though, but we think ’det er bedre at have en fugl i hånden end 10 på taget’ – ’it is better having one bird in one’s hand than 10 on the rooftop’. As for the birds’ zang and roep I reckognized first roep well and the last roep is precisely the one our titmouse utters when a cat passes underneath his tree - and here I for one always waffle between: should it be titmice or titmouses in the plural? – looked it up: anything goes ![]() The zang I hear as quite different from that of our local titmice’, so I spent some time in that very exciting source]’source’[/url] of yours and found this to be fairly representative of what I hear. I expected the birds to sing different dialects in different locations, because I listened to a radio programme years ago dealing with the dialects of the common chaffinch and it fascinated me. If he lives at Bornholm he sings markedly different from his brothers in Denmark across the Baltic to the west of him. And by the way, the soundexample from England on the Wiki is very far from the Danish dialect. Would it fit how Dutch chaffinches sing? Our chaffinches sing: En-to-tre-fire-fem-seks kan jeg sige lige så tit det skal være .. One-two-three-four-five-six I can say as often as you want … Repeat – they do repeat a lot, don't they? ![]() |
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