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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Here is the digraph as it comes out when I google it. But the page behaves somewhat strangely. First it shows you the Wiki-page that deals with digraphs in general for a brief moment, and it kind of JUMPs! into this picture
----------------------------------------- and it's the middle line I find looks like calligraphy ![]() EDIT: turned 'JUMP!' into 'JUMPs!' [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 31, 2017 10:16:45 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
1st & 2nd & 3rd person verb conjugation singular and plural installment
- better have this nailed down Having just made this EDIT: turned 'JUMP!' into 'JUMPs!' ^^^ prompts me to ask: Do you Dutchmen conjugate verbs like primarily the Germans, and secondarily the English do? |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Halloween wordplay installment
- just landed in my mailbox ![]() - one more reason to have Norwitchen as my favorite airline |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2346 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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1st & 2nd & 3rd person verb conjugation singular and plural installment How do we do that? That's a very good question, little mermaid. I don't quite understand what you mean by "like primarily the Germans, and secondarily the English do", but let me try to explain how we conjugate verbs in Dutch.- better have this nailed down … Do you Dutchmen conjugate verbs like primarily the Germans, and secondarily the English do? As in English, in Dutch we have regular and irregular verbs. Regular verbs all follow the same conjugation. To conjugate a regular verb, we need to know the verb's stem. Therefore, before we move on to the actual conjugation of a verb, we need to know how to derive the stem from an infinitive. The latter is the verb in its 'unconjugated' form, the way you find it in a dictionary: to work, to see, to know, etc. Dutch infinitives always end in '-en', e.g. werken (to work), koken (to cook), or weten (to know). The general rule for deriving the stem is: STEM = INFINITIVE minus '-en'. We call this the crude stem, because a stem often needs one or two additional adjustments. Regular verbs can have long or short vowels. The general rule here is that the stem needs the same long or short vowel! (See this link.) So if the stem of an infinitive with a long vowel is one with a short vowel, we must make it long first. (to make = 'maken' => mak => maak) Next, if a crude stem ends in two identical consonants, we subtract one consonant. (to miss = 'missen' => miss => mis) When, after subtraction of -en from the infinitive (and possibly the correction for length of the vowel), the stem ends in v or z, these letters turn into f and s respectively. (to live = 'leven' => lev => leev => leef) Now let's conjugate. This is the easy part. singular 1st person: ik (I) 2nd person: jij (you) 3rd person: hij, zij, het (he, she, it) plural 1st person: wij (we) 2nd person: jullie (you) 3rd person: zij (they) ik <stem> jij <stem> + t hij <stem> + t wij <inifinitive> jullie <inifinitive> zij <inifinitive> Example: to learn = leren ik leer jij leert hij leert, zij leert, het leert wij leren jullie leren zij leren In Dutch, we also have six completely irregular verbs (zijn, hebben, kunnen, zullen, mogen, komen), plus five verbs that look like they are completely irregular (while in fact, they are strong verbs): zien, gaan, staan, doen, slaan. I will list two of the most important verbs here: zijn (to be) and hebben (to have). to be = zijn ik ben jij bent hij is wij zijn jullie zijn zij zijn to have = hebben ik heb jij hebt hij heeft wij hebben jullie hebben zij hebben For more information on irregular verbs, please see this page (and the Next Page(s)). Of course, this was only the present tense. ![]() Could we have some music now? |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2346 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Forgot one important thing: if the stem already ends in -t, you don't have to apply "<stem> + t" (2nd and 3rd person singular).
Example: weten = to know: ik/jij/hij weet, wij/jullie/zij weten Might as well add the present tense of the irregular verbs. :-) Already did 'zijn' en 'hebben'. First we jump into kunnen, zullen, mogen, komen. kunnen = can: ik/jij/hij kan, wij/jullie/zij kunnen (also: jij kunt) zullen = will: ik/jij/hij wil, wij/jullie/zij willen (also: jij wilt) mogen = to may, to be allowed: ik/jij/hij mag, wij/jullie/zij mogen komen = to come: ik kom, jij/hij komt, wij/jullie/zij komen Now, let's deal with zien, doen, gaan, staan, slaan. zien = to see: ik zie, jij/hij ziet, wij/jullie/zij zien doen = to do: ik doe, jij/hij doet, wij/jullie/zij doen gaan = to go: ik ga, jij/hij gaat, wij/jullie/zij gaan staan = to stand: ik sta, jij/hij staat, wij/jullie/zij staan slaan = to hit/beat: ik sla, jij/hij slaat, wij/jullie/zij slaan Ik doe wat ik doe - Singer is Astrid Nijgh, three weeks at number 6 in the Top 40 in 1973 |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
It-could-have-been-much-worse-with-those-verbs installment
----------------------------------------- you could have had them different from each other in all six cases Your infinitive works in Grossen und Ganzen wie in Deutsch (you write these language words with a capitol, I remember). A stem where you remove the infinitive ending and add your present ending to that ’naked’ stem. I can understand that. No problem.All the strategic adjustments are interesting, however, but also a bit funny when you see it from a Danish perspective. I can understand that it’s the way it’s done, but when you read how we do it, you will notice how simple it can be done. It has you wondering what went on generation after generation to shape it this way, doesn’t it? Have Dutchmen searched for some ultimate way of expressing themselves? Have they worked hard on developing the perfect language? Have the Danes been lazy and lackadaisy and eliminated all the difficult stuff? Put the process of communicating in a simple way above form? If I concentrate on what you put at the end your ’shaved’ infinitive to make it the present, you do it pretty much as Danes would do. But being such simple people, the stem equals the infinitive when you are Danish. No crude stem. Just stem. All you have to do is stitch an ’r’ at the end of that exsisting and unchanged infinitive, and you’re all set. And that is why I often forget to put the singularum thirds person 's' on those English verbs in the present. It's an exotic and unnecessary manouver foreign to me. Let me show you how easy the conjugation is in all of the three singularums and all of the three plurals: – it’s not there, and still we are able to communicate.to write = ’at skrive’ + the present ’r’ = jeg skriver (I write) to eat = ’at spise’ + the present ’r’ = du spiser (you write) to smile = at smile + the present ’r’ = han smiler (he smiles) to dance = at danse + the present ’r’ = vi danser (we dance) to drink = at drikke + the present ’r’ = I drikker (you (the plural) drink) to sing = at synge + the present ’r’ = de synger (they sing) How about that? And some say Danish is difficult! They do so, because they never sniffed to Dutch Were it not because of your Dutch upbringing where you learnt your ways from babyhood, I’m sure you would put "Danish treatment of verbs" at the top of your wishing list for Christmas. Your conjugation is not bad (relatively spoken). It could have been like the Latin languages where each case has its own ending Irregular verbs. We have them, too but not conjugationwise – only when we begin talking the past tense etc. zijn = at være = jeg er. Everybody ’er’ hebben = at have = jeg har. Everybody ’har’ Yes, let’s have some music:What Did You Learn in School Today, Dear Little Boy of Mine? - finally something relatively simple - until you have to pronounce it ![]() *************************************************** Not really an edit, rather a P.S. I leafed through some of this boek this morning, and I found so much I haven't paid sufficient attention to. Take this: Koffiezetapparaat - you must have used a hidden camera when you took that footage of me The 'windsnelheid' is expressed in km/h in the Netherlands. It has been a stormy night and we now have 'wintertijd' (wintertime) again. Oh, you lucky (can I say bastards here? Aldi sells an Australian wine called 'Lucky Bastard' so I'll take the chance) bastards I'm sure that was a factor, too, when Marco Verhoef dumped me for that job. I was not fast enough calculating wind speeds being indoctrinated with the m/second format. Yes, we went back to normal time last Sunday. I don't buy 'wintertijd', I don't buy 'sommertijd', I buy no seasonal tijds at all. I want the same time year round. I'm a member of 'The National Association against Sommertid' Unfortunately, it's only in Danish. The annual general assembly takes place on the internet the last Sunday in March between 02:00 and 03:00 a.m. EDIT: "du skriver (you write)" -> du spiser (you eat) 'bebben' -> hebben EDIT II - well, I kind of did what I intended to do [Edit 3 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 3, 2017 2:57:27 AM] |
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alged
Master Cruncher FRANCE Joined: Jun 12, 2009 Post Count: 2369 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Hello " Little Mermaid "
----------------------------------------Even though i cannot intervene in all these complexities u extend on that thread about languages -i dont know even a word of german or danish-may i ask you to correct the omission of X in that last sentence in french. "-who can say no to an invitation to go to Base Camping in France?" Je ne PEUX pas " VerbePouvoir3third group in french grammar Respectfully. ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello alged,
Thank you very much for your correction which I have implemented instantly. You are always welcome to proof read my French which is très pauvre ... ![]() |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2346 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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It's interesting to note how Danish verbs are treated, little maid of the sea:
----------------------------------------to write = ’at skrive’ + the present ’r’ = jeg skriver (I write) to eat = ’at spise’ + the present ’r’ = du skriver (you write) to smile = at smile + the present ’r’ = han smiler (he smiles) to dance = at danse + the present ’r’ = vi danser (we dance) to drink = at drikke + the present ’r’ = I drikker (you (the plural) drink) to sing = at synge + the present ’r’ = de synger (they sing) If we should do that to Dutch verbs, and let's pretend that the stem of verbs would be ending in -e instead of -en, then we get: ik/jij/hij/wij/jullie/zij schrijver (write), lacher (smile), danser (dance), drinker, zinger Of course now it's somewhat ridiculous. I know. But … there is even some sense of recognition: it looks as if we're meeting primitive people from some recently discovered tribe and they're trying to speak Dutch without verbs. Pronoun + noun. I (or more primitive: me) writer, you smiler, he dancer, she drinker (loosely meaning: I am a writer, you are a smiler, he is a dancer, etc.) It reminds me of a children's TV-series from the sixties called Pipo the Clown with an actor playing the role of an (American) Indian (you know, a person with a wigwam) called Klukkluk and he only used one conjugation of verbs: the infinitive: "Mij zijn van de luie, jij gelijk hebben, hij zijn van de dikke." (where you would recognize the Dutch infinitives 'hebben' and 'zijn' with singular pronouns 'jij' and 'hij'). The Indian also used the word "mij" (= me) instead of the correct "ik" (1st person singular). In this way Dutch children could hear that this Indian wasn't properly speaking Dutch. Translation of the bad Dutch sentence above into English would go something like this: "Me are the lazy one type, you right are, he are the fat one type." Why did I mention this example? Because it resembles Danish conjugations! If all Dutch people would have gone walking along the path of this Dutch Indian, we would all be speaking Of course it wouldn't have to be the Danish 'r' per se that would be ending verbs. Another possibility could be the Dutch 't' that's common in the 2nd and 3rd person singular. Well, that was a short trip, a very short lingual experiment. Were it not because of your Dutch upbringing where you learnt your ways from babyhood, I’m sure you would put Maybe ask Sint Nicolaas first (5 December). "Danish treatment of verbs" at the top of your wishing list for Christmas. I think I would choose Indian Dutch, so that we could say: "That's good Dutch! Mr Klukkluk was right all the time!" I want the same time year round. I'm a member of 'The National Association against Sommertid' Unfortunately, it's only in Danish. Agreed, it should always be wintertime. So, 'ikke' means against? It looks like it has to sound like 'agai' without the -nst. Google Translate says 'no means no'.The annual general assembly takes place on the internet the last Sunday in March between 02:00 and 03:00 a.m. So, everybody is sitting there towards 2 o'clock, ready to start the meeting, and suddenly it's 3 o'clock and the meeting is over. "Yes, you were sitting there, you had your chances, now it's too late ." ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by adriverhoef at Nov 3, 2017 2:05:22 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Oh, so wonderfully good to see you again, adriverhof
---------------------------------------- Yes, let's talk Indiandutch - must be a hundred times as linguistically unchallenging as pidginenglish. Me feel du have the urge .... -- and now I'm rushing to edit the edits I announced to do but didn't ... - bebben -> hebben (which is definitely Yiddish )"That's good Dutch! Mr Klukkluk was right all the time!" Of course, he was Well, 'ikke' is a negation: 'I like Dutch' 'Jeg kan lide hollandsk'/'I don't like Dutch' 'Jeg kan ikke lide hollandsk' But I do I do like Indian Dutch. A lot! More to come .... EDIT: Deleted a picture. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Nov 3, 2017 11:51:01 AM] |
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