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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
It's known you hop over and brush everything aside unbecoming your well being feeling, David, but let me waste a bit more time and pass here a short excerpt on that fine feature of CO2 quantitativeness and what it does to plants and elevated mix.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?n=714 Temperature It has long been known that stomata (the pores through which plants take in CO2 and exhale oxygen and water) tend to be narrower and stay closed longer under enhanced CO2. This effect is often cited as a benefit in that it increases water efficiency in drought situations. But there is another key piece to reduced stomatal conductance, considering that 90% of a plant's water use is actually for cooling of the leaves and nothing more: heat from the sun is absorbed by the water in the leaf, then carried out as vapor in the form of latent heat. So while it is true that the plant may retain water better under enhanced CO2, doing so may cause it to retain more heat. This can potentially carry a plant to less optimal temperature ranges (Ball et al. 1988 and Idso et al. 1993). An image present in Long et al. 2006 (Figure 4) shows this effect quite clearly; while a 1.4 C increase is probably not enough to cause significant damage in most cases, global warming will only serve to exacerbate the effect. It is also of note that the study above represented a well-watered situation, and so during a drought condition the temperature increase would be even higher. ![]() Figure 4 - Increase in local temperature under enhanced CO2 due to reduced evapotranspiration. From Long et al. 2006 On the cold end, it has been found that for seedlings of some species of evergreen trees, excess CO2 can increase the ice formation temperature on the leaves, thereby increasing their sensitivity to frost damage (Roden et al. 1998). emphasis mine. There's particular mention of stomati, the ones you think have not changed in 4.5 billion years (though first plants have not come on land until about 475 million years ago, possibly less... read Adjustable valves gave ancient plants the edge ). Surely it has escaped few about the beetle infestation in forests in North America, killing enormous acreages and then CO2 adding to frost sensitivity... all normal(?), those beetles survived due lack of the usual deep cold. Can tell you, we had snow down here starting Dec. 6, 2010 and it was lasting a week and it killed or severely damaged many evergreens here... the oldies here [one 87 man who shared recently that his parents were unfortunate to have been an-alphabetic] said they'd never seen this before. ''Food'' for thought! --//-- |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I said intelligent DNA designer I never said nothing has changed
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
More wheat crops, sigh, and still missing the ''Nutritional'' part. Evolution continuing, the way humans are going in width and height and circumference, the Anthropocene era will end too, little creative thinking needed, we'll start to look like 2 legged elephants, with double wopper stomaches to extract what you need to stay alive. Do you know why a cow has 4 and has a nicely round frame? [some farmers in the UK got smart, they thought, fed their cow an optimized diet, sheep scrapies invested proteins and created CJD].
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Sek you are not claiming that your Snow in December was on account of the alleged increase in Global Temperature are you?
----------------------------------------You're not having your cake and eating it Last Winter lest you forget was one of the worst in the last 100 years or so across the Northern Hemisphere Let's also not forget the Sun has waned to a level not seen for about 100 years or so But you want to claim it was the increase in CO2 and the current - perfectly normal 0.32C - so called anomaly, that caused it and the drought across Ethiopia and the rest of the Horn of Africa? ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I said intelligent DNA designer I never said nothing has changed Care to link to the original post? [hmmm could be in that removed thread] where you exclaimed ''hands off'' on some Genetic Modification angle that popped into the discussion. As for the "intelligent DNA designer" I'm afraid we're fundamentally differing on origins, evolution and the invented ''Intelligent Design" story that was developed to slip that into US public school syllabus, since direct religious teaching in public schools was not allowed. No, humans are not too puny anymore at 7 billion and rising to have become an overpowering factor of all that is. --//-- |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Sek you are not claiming that your Snow in December was on account of the alleged increase in Global Temperature are you? You're not having your cake and eating it Last Winter lest you forget was one of the worst in the last 100 years or so across the Northern Hemisphere Let's also not forget the Sun has waned to a level not seen for about 100 years or so But you want to claim it was the increase in CO2 and the current - perfectly normal 0.32C - so called anomaly, that caused it and the drought across Ethiopia and the rest of the Horn of Africa? You're not grasping a thing I've said, not the previous posts and not the bulk of any previous post made by me in this thread [dancing around the turd in the bowl]... Do we start from the top again, the standard game play that you follow? More Vapor going around, Jet Stream shifting causing more snow to fall in winter, just as predicted, falling on plants that were used to 280ppmv and now having to swallow 394 ppmv. Why is it this selectiveness... why this more snow falling [one of worst winters in a hundred years], but there then being less snow left then normal in the Spring and Summer time and the Sea Ice on the brink of more low records? Can you see it, David? The sun is still emitting 99.9% of what it was emitting before 1365 Watts per square meter, arriving with an 8 minute travel time for it's main part. In minimum, which it is not now, 1.2 Watts less than at it's cycle peak, when it is at minimum. What part are you not understanding about energy? Yes we know your 510 million km square math "that's allot of watts", but still, just 1.2 watts at top of atmosphere. Please don't speculate on readers not getting it and thinking that only the last 10 posts in this thread will be remembered containing the references and lead ins to the mountains of valid evidence, not the carefully crafted stuff from those "institutes" such as the Heartland, George Marshall, ATI and their errant boys such as Cuccinelli and A.Watts, for those who like to read ''It Aint true'' --//-- PS, the Anomaly is 0.32C above a 30 year mean [base line] of Roy Spencer. Care to tell the readers what the value was at the beginning when Spencer started measuring... right when the sun had slightly more active cycles than now? Don't bother, for those with short memory: ![]() Can you see it? Science is when ALL factors are considered, not the ones you like and certainly not the fantasms. Anyone thinking that I or anyone like it, what's happening to the planet, is sheer unadulterad lunacy. NO ONE SINGLE BEING WANTS THIS. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jul 13, 2011 1:11:21 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
One more thing before I'll take a break from argument, it not being constructive discussion where there's actual demonstrated uptake of any of many many lines of addetive evidence [Here's your chance]. I've got trouble fitting where you come from. We have the "hands off from stomata" exclaim and "Intelligent DNA Designer". Are you afraid that [puny] human can break, or is allowed to break what should then be unbreakable? What we do here at WCG is digging into the very essences of the workings of DNA, amino acid chains and more and trying to fix the DNA and immunity mechanisms that allow horrible flaws to exist such as AIDS, Cancer, Muscular Dystrophy, Dengue, Yellow Fever, Flu, Hepatitis C, anmd who knows one day Barth Syndrome [though only a few hundred are known to suffer the affliction due poor diagnosis], no price too high to have your child survive.
Personally, I think we are going to screw up at one point in time a grandiose way [accidentally or with intend] and then the history book on humanity known as species Homo Sapiens Sapiens will close the last chapter. It wont be Nuclear Power Plants or Nukes, that I'm as sure of as sure can be. Nothing Rhymed (Gilbert O'Sullivan). --//-- |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Sek you claimed that
----------------------------------------"the ones you think have not changed in 4.5 billion years" it was the response to that brush you try always to tar me with As to an intelligent designer Yes I agree that DNA as a messenger between the billion's of cells in your body and the billions of plant and animals that exist on the planet doesn't always get the right message across But as is is evidenced in this thread the message does not always get through But it's a whole load more successful than you dare give it credit for in it's beautiful design ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Yes I agree that DNA as a messenger between the billion's of cells in your body and the billions of plant and animals that exist on the planet doesn't always get the right message across So please, can you post the link to your original statement on stomata for a conclusive "I said, you said", and what according to you I'd like to stick on you? Whatever these ''doesn't always get the right message across" means, I think there's whole lot of ''doesn't always'', in fact, the failed messages are growing... AIDS keeps on developing new armament to what we're hurling at it [perfecting itself]. Then there is the ever decreasing functioning of penicillin and hospitals fighting against resistant bugs, against which nothing works, short of flame throwers. But it's a whole load more successful than you dare give it credit for in it's beautiful design Beautiful design... Per evolution theory [Darwin had trouble himself through his last breath about his discoveries], the survival remains to work according to who/what is fittest for the offered in the local environment, leading to specialization. The return of trillions of tonnes of CO2 [not to speak of endless numbers of chemical fallout] through burning of fossil fuel ** is an overpowering the speed at which that adaptation can happen. Through the history of the planet we can identify at least 5 mass extinctions. we're working on number 6... call that a success? Were watching a Belgian program on the origins of man and a trip to Ethiopia to investigate [the thought cradle of us all]. There was a woman who was asked what she believed and she said "well, Lucy was created and Man was created". [You must have heard of Lucy]. Well Lucy was rubbished... not good enough as predecessor some few million years ago. It would be an illusion to think that HSS would then not be rubbished too as overarching ''too successful'' epoch destroying all other things created. Going around wide eyed and think about what we had, or forward thinking on what needs to be kept, that's the question being asked... my answer is an unequivocal EVERYTHING. Now it's time for answers and solutions. Last time a global disaster happened, an estimated 18,500 humanoids survived... the probable explanation for the rather poor gene diversity of humanity... and simple to think that potatoes and rice have many more... 20,000 resp. 40,000 if remembering the numbers correctly... Both were recently fully decoded. Yes we can. --//-- ** Stuck away for the most part during the Carboniferous. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jul 13, 2011 5:44:22 PM] |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Sek always the miserable?
----------------------------------------There isn't a climate crisis, we are not doomed and we can feed everyone given the will. for the uplifting bigger picture it helps if you turn your eyes skyward every now and again. Check this out http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/articl...alaxy-seen-naked-eye.html ![]() |
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