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retsof
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Morning Gerald

There's a 1 foot depth of Catastrophic Man Made Global Warming outside my window in Brussels biggrin

If you ever needed any evidence that God has a sense of humour this is it....and it's white and fluffy biggrin


I'm glad I bought that warm coat wink

LOL

Dave
When it is cold and dry in the northern U.S. it doesn't snow at all. Enjoy your moisture from the warm oceans.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/11/031106052121.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/443...rming-say-scientists.html


Snow is consistent with global warming, say scientists
Britain may be in the grip of the coldest winter for 30 years and grappling with up to a foot of snow in some places but the extreme weather is entirely consistent with global warming, claim scientists.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by retsof at Dec 19, 2009 4:42:15 PM]
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mikey
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Morning Gerald

There's a 1 foot depth of Catastrophic Man Made Global Warming outside my window in Brussels biggrin

If you ever needed any evidence that God has a sense of humour this is it....and it's white and fluffy biggrin


I'm glad I bought that warm coat wink

LOL

Dave
When it is cold and dry in the northern U.S. it doesn't snow at all. Enjoy your moisture from the warm oceans.


That is true, I used to live in Alaska and it did not snow much due to the extremely low moisture levels. But man did it get cold!!! 67F below one winter when I was there in the late 60's!! Now in the summer I STILL had to mow the darned grass every weekend!! It would get into the 90'sF some hot summer days! I was a kid and was there with my dad who was in the Air Force and stationed just outside Fairbanks. We had to walk to school, we lived on base and it was only a few blocks, but I can remember taking off our parkas and spitting in the snow to make snowballs. No moisture means the snow doesn't stick itself!! And YES some Airmen always stuck their tongues to the metal poles every year and had to have warm water poured on their tongues to get them off. Some would even freeze their ears and then their buddies would flick them with their finger and the ear would go flying off too! Cold weather can make for some very interesting times, I also remember plugging the car in every time we parked. Block heaters and/or dip stick heaters were in every car.
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damir1978
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

This video-clip from scientists explain how earth Magnetic field is the ONLY source that is responsible for current (or any other) Global Warming process:


http://www.youtube.com/user/BjarneLorenzen
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

........................ you can go ahead and talk..................


Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. straight face angel peace
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damir1978
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

I still believe humans influence in a significant way the Climate, at least in a way that it shortens the time to warming period generated by Earth's the magnetic field.

Below couple of example when humans helped mess this planet further:

Extreme weather: Dust Bowl created by drought and human harvesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl

Deforestation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

Aral Sea almost gone because of irrigation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea

Also, the main factor in human influence over Climate or at least Biosphere (global sum of all ecosystems) is the sheer magnitude of Anthroposphere (global sum of human activities) presence on Earth. Our cities and crop fields took a huge chunk from the old forests and lakes of the world (we took the good land not the bad stuff like deserts which we cannot manage to change in good land). Think about how much we took in terms of space or resources. And now think about how much we will take in the next 100 to 200 years from now when the population will get 4-7 times bigger.
Do you think WE HAVE PROBLEMS? Think about people leaving 100 years from now. What resources or space they will require versus what they will have:

Human population year 1900: 1,650 millions
Human population year 2008: 6,707 millions

Based on the equation above (when despite 2 World Wars plus lots of small wars, lots of disease, genocides, car/train/airplane/boat accidents, etc. population increased 4 times) we can expect around 15-25 billion people by 2100. After (unless civil unrest provokes total annihilation) you can see increases to over 50 billion by 2150-2200. These people will take space and resources. Already we decimated almost all the significant wild species of this entire planet. We produce food in absolute enormous quantities and it is still not enough.
When it will end? How it will end?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by damir1978 at Dec 21, 2009 2:03:45 PM]
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Sekerob
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

It's not a question of believe: It's a scientifically determined fact supported by mountains of independently assessed data sources telling the sam! Take CRU, the victim of the email hacks out and it makes not one iota of difference... their numbers are anyway slightly screwball. How can 2/3rds of land on the Northern Hemisphere be counting for only half of the global land number?... that's why the MET said: They're understated, and they are... they are partially commercially funded i.e. consult for the good old Oilpops such as Shell... no desire to ruffle their feathers.

As for your believe pre-COP15: 69% said a firm yes. Only 9% said firmly no, not anthropogenic.



http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/cdms3/

The majority speaks and in a democracy, they have the aye.
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Hypernova
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

damir1978, I do believe too that human activity influences our planet and in may ways. Cutting down up forests, changing the equilibrium of atmospheric components, polluting sea and rivers, drying lakes, eroding the soil, changing the reflective property of the earth's surface by our activities etc. etc. will have or has already an effect no doubt. How big, how fast, for sure I do not know, but doing nothing will not help.

Now regarding your projections in terms of demographic population I would be much more cautious.

Today we are much less then what was predicted 40 years ago. Nobody had included in the model the fact that with the increasing of the living standards, after a certain level the birth rate goes abruptly down.

So today all demographers are trying to see how to include this effect which will be at various stages in various countries. What seems sure is that we have to review the numbers on the lower side.

Today demographic predictions models between the minimum and the maximum for 2100 can variate by a factor of ten. Clearly there is a problem.

For me this means that we must do everything to help under developed countries reach the development level were the birth rate goes down to a renewal rate of their population.

Then there is some hope that we could reach an acceptable equilibrium with our planet renewable and sustainable technologies helping.

It is also interesting to note that when a very high level of development and living standards is reached the birth rate starts slightly to increase again.
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mikey
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

damir1978, I do believe too that human activity influences our planet and in may ways. Cutting down up forests, changing the equilibrium of atmospheric components, polluting sea and rivers, drying lakes, eroding the soil, changing the reflective property of the earth's surface by our activities etc. etc. will have or has already an effect no doubt. How big, how fast, for sure I do not know, but doing nothing will not help.

Now regarding your projections in terms of demographic population I would be much more cautious.

Today we are much less then what was predicted 40 years ago. Nobody had included in the model the fact that with the increasing of the living standards, after a certain level the birth rate goes abruptly down.

So today all demographers are trying to see how to include this effect which will be at various stages in various countries. What seems sure is that we have to review the numbers on the lower side.

Today demographic predictions models between the minimum and the maximum for 2100 can variate by a factor of ten. Clearly there is a problem.

For me this means that we must do everything to help under developed countries reach the development level were the birth rate goes down to a renewal rate of their population.

Then there is some hope that we could reach an acceptable equilibrium with our planet renewable and sustainable technologies helping.

It is also interesting to note that when a very high level of development and living standards is reached the birth rate starts slightly to increase again.


The other thing to consider is the amount of unused land in the World, the US has hundreds of thousands of unused acreage that could have homes etc put on it. Russia too has untold hundreds of thousands of unused acres. Now to be sure little of this is near anything right now and it would take some enterprising developments to make any of it habitable, but even China has a Desert that is increasing in size and could also be made habitable, for a price. We are not running out of room on the Planet, we are running out of room where people WANT to live on the Planet. In the US, and I am sure elsewhere too, the Inner Cities have areas that are nearly deserted due to the population moving out. All of those could be used for homes if the population were to grow. Now the feeding and job markets for those people is a whole other issue.
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Khyron
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Most of the wikipedia entries have been tampered with:

"A new report reveals a British scientist and Wikipedia administrator rewrote climate history, editing more than 5,000 unique articles in the online encyclopedia to cover traces of a medieval warming period – something Climategate scientists saw as a major roadblock in the effort to spread the global warming message.

Recently hacked e-mails from the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit expose a plot to eliminate the Medieval Warm Period, a 400-year era that began around A.D. 1000, the Financial Post's Lawrence Solomon reports."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=119745

William Connolley's wikipedia editing privelages have been revoked.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/19/more-on...-as-a-wiki-administrator/ We can no longer pretend that these "Scienthologists" are practicing anytihng remotely resembling Science. As I was taught - if the data does not support your hypothesis, it should be rejected and a new hypothesis formed. More simply if Plan A fails you don't try Plan A recycled.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by TXVB at Dec 22, 2009 6:14:52 PM]
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Khyron
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK


The majority speaks and in a democracy, they have the aye.


A majority opinion does not make good science.

When Einstein came up with his Special Theory the majority opinion was Newtonian.

In the middle ages the majority knew that maggots grew from cheese and meat.

In the 70's the majority knew that global cooling and mass starvation would occur by 2010.

In the 16th and 17th centuries the majority of Europe and it's colonies had slavery.

I could go on... (helocentrism, flat earth, eugenics...)

Many people, even scientists, may agree with something, yet it can be *wrong*.

Either the hypothesis is supported by the data, or it is not. Belief, opinion and consensus have no place in true enlightened Science.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by TXVB at Dec 22, 2009 5:32:45 PM]
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