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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

thinking I absolutly have to underline what Shpanky has written !
[Nov 19, 2004 5:12:47 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
MovieMan80
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

The main reason I'm running this client is that there is the potential for some very important breakthroughs to be made much earlier than if companies did all the computing on their own. Whether it's being done for a non-profit organization or not is irrelevant to me as the results are more important.

However, I do put some trust in IBM by believing that the results are going to be publicly available the projects only conducted for non-profit organizations. The reason I believe IBM's statements is that I have not known them to ever help a company make a profit and attempt to call it a philanthropic effort.

I do believe that IBM is not doing this solely out of the good of their hearts. Their grid software is getting a tremendous amount of exposure and the World Community Grid is also a great way for them to tune their software with a large amount of devices.

Even though this grid is a free download and works for non-profit organizations, their grid software will be far from free for corporations who want to use it for their own private computing tasks.

Just my two cents...

http://www-1.ibm.com/grid/101804BizWeek.html
[Nov 19, 2004 5:30:21 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

This information is necessarily going to be used by research institutions and private corporations, such as pfizer, just as the results of the human genome project are.

This project is not like Linux, where the result of the input of the work of volunteers goes up to make something everyone can use directly, an operating system, it's more akin to making a map of the world. As pure information, it does little to enhance us, it's through the implementation of it into our world that it has affect. Each of us implements a map when we travel long distances, but much greater than that, is the effect it has on our communities, through the action of such insitutions as the post office, FedEx, Newegg, Target, etc. If that information were strictly available to the government, then FedEx and UPS would be out of business, and every other business that depends upon them would be affected, trickling back to all of us.
So, what does this analogy have to do with anything? Well, private corporations are necessary to implement the information in useable fashion. While it might be interesting to know that gene 58493 codes for a protein that folds into some shape, the information alone is not very valuable if you can't use it in a for profit venture (unless you live in a communist state) because there will be no way to produce drugs or anything else with the information. Because drug development is expensive and a risky endeavor, it is necessarily the purvue of businesses. Many things will flow from the discoveries made here... some profits will necessarily be seen.
:-)

Justin
[Nov 19, 2004 6:19:35 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

Nice post James Mann, I agree with your point of view.
My PC is crunching the units for the good of humanity. biggrin
[Nov 19, 2004 6:37:22 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

Yes, yes, yes - this is not for profit! I run the Healthcare and Lifesciences business for IBM and work with the Institute for Systems Biology. I can assure you this effort is for open publication of results only and not for profit-making endeavors or generation of protected intellectual property. I'm asking the grid organizers to weigh in here as well and make this clearer. Please stay with it - its a good thing for the world scientific and healthcare community.
[Nov 19, 2004 9:42:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

YES, this is a 100% philanthropic effort. Only not for profit organizations and schools will be considered for research on World Community Grid, ALL results must be published and in the public domain and our Advisory Board will make sure that we focus on issues most likely to make a difference for those living in developing countries and disadvantaged communities. IBM, and I know this since I've got this responsibility at IBM, is contributing all of the technical resources and we will have no rights to the research. THANKS for joining and making sure this is the right place to contribute.
[Nov 19, 2004 11:55:34 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

So please do us and yourself the favour and put this in a clear understandable way without a list of exceptions on your homepage.

And please also add the information that you have ensured that the system can't be misused by i.e. the Pentagon or similar organisations. I don't want to support with our computer power someone else than your projects even if someone tries to use national security arguments etc. to get control
[Nov 20, 2004 3:40:30 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Lighthouse
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

Does no one find it strange that this thread is now 2 and a half pages long and not one "official" person has answered this simple question?

Where are the "moderators"? Or have they been told to keep their mouth shut and let the "members" flounder around and guess the answer?

Their silence seems to suggest that the answer is "no" and they realize that they would kill the project if they confessed up.

So, where are you, moderators??? Speak up. We deserve a straightforward answer. We should not have to guess or "interpret" corporate statements on other websites.

MOOSE, WHERE ARE YOU?

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[Nov 20, 2004 4:59:34 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Lighthouse
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

I could not figure out how to "edit" my prior post, so I am just appending:

robin g: I am not trying to minimize your statements. But you are listed as a "stranger" with only 2 posts, so I assume you are just another one of the guys here. I am looking for someone who has "moderator" or "administrator" below their name.

no offense to you was intended.

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[Nov 20, 2004 5:04:54 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Is this a Non-Profit organization ??

I think the biggest concern here is that there are many phases that this data must travel through to become useful to the general population of the world. So it has been stated that the results of any work done on the grid will be available to the public worldwide. This is great but if the work being done here is 90% of the reason why companies don't do it now, do you feel it's fare for a company to obtain this data freely, do the last 10% of the work and come up with a wonder cure for some dismal disease, and then patent that last 10% effectively locking up this cure for their own private financial gain by effectively creating a monopoly on the cure so they can sell it at slightly higher than astronomical prices. (I.e. like we see in the united states on a daily basis.)

Maybe my concerns are not justified as I don't know much about the drug industry or the details of the processes they go through. I am familiar with patents and how they are used to monopolize technology though, and the incredibly negative and stifling effect they have on the technology market, specifically software development. These companies know there is a finite number of ways to accomplish a task, or in this case and finite number of possible cures for any disease. If they manage to lock up these few cures, or possibly the only cure, by patenting the last 10% of the work needed to create the cure, in effect they have hijacked the work that we all here are doing for everyone's betterment to use for their own financial benefit.

This specifically, or some variation on it, is what concerns me and many others the most. The work being done here appears to be the best way known of finding possible cure candidates which seems to be fairly accurate. By example the reference to finding 44 candidates in the smallpox test run. If a company can get a specific focus on those 44 candidates and figure out that a hand full of them actually do cure the illness, then they patent those cures. Now how is any other group supposed to be able to use this data that we are creating here to help humanity if they sued by the patent holder as soon as they try? If there were an infinite number of possible cures then everyone could find their own, but it doesn't appear that the variance in possible cures is that wide. So this turns into a race for the first cure.. and first prize is a patent monopoly that you can use to extort the infected masses with, which is what everyone here is specifically trying to eliminate to begin with. I don't want to see this become a "better" means by which companies continue to hold the sick hostage with a cure.

I think there needs to be a GPL type license that goes along with the benefit of freely using the grids data, which keeps the finite number of cures that can possibly be found for any drug, as part of the public domain. That doesn't exclude a drug company from making the drug and selling it. It only stops them from exclusively owning what may be the only cure possible for any particular disease. Others should be allowed to find the same cure if they are willing to do the last 10% themselves which keeps any particular drug company from becoming a single source for a cure.

I don't want the grid or my efforts to turn into a benefit for the drug companies to get around having to spend lots of money so they can own cures in a more financially feasible way FOR THEM, just so they can turn around and financially rape the sick because they own some patent.

This I believe sums up roughly what many here are concerned about. Until this can be addressed to everyone’s satisfaction this will continue to be a concern.



Robert Williams
[Nov 20, 2004 8:37:53 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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