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Brace Potthoff
Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 19 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I'm turning off my client because of this as well, turning back to Stanford University's Folding@Home - a project I feel much more confident about being non-profit, and not using the results received from our computers for patents, having the results rest in the hands of the public.
I'd like to join up with WCG, but until they respond to the demands for a very clear, bold, and precise statement that the results used will be in the hands of the public, not being used for profit or patents, I'll have my computer work for a more trustworthy cause. It would be wise for an administrator or developer for the WCG to respond to this topic, reassuring the volunteers it's losing about the good intentions of the World Community Grid. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I hope to see an early reply from WCG re. the foregoing comments.
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
There's another thread in the Suggestions forum that you might find reassuring or not...
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread?thread=338 |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The RFP (Request for Proposal) document clearly states:
"World Community Grid is designed as a resource for research done with a philanthropic or humanitarian purpose and will only be available to projects conducted for public and not-for-profit purposes. It will serve as a useful tool for the completion of a certain stage of research, hastening the progress of projects into further phases of development. Results must be made available to the global research community by the sponsoring research organization and remain in the public domain. The results will also be available on World Community Grid’s website for volunteers and other visitors." Also: "World Community Grid, with technology and funding provided by the IBM Corporation, is making grid technology available to public and not-for-profit organizations to use in humanitarian research that might otherwise not be completed due to the high cost of the computer infrastructure required in the absence of a public grid." And: "Following the conclusion of the project, the research organization will make results produced by World Community Grid freely available to other research organizations within six months. The research organization also will provide results in a lay version for the World Community Grid community of volunteers and interested visitors to the web site." I don't know how they can make more clear than that. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
That are some perfect statements you picked out there!
Let all the guys who think this is not non-profit read this. ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Anyway, I want to hear official WCG answer, but for now, I turn off my client...
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I too have uninstalled the client this morning. I think the World Community Grid organization could be more clear about what this is all about.
With the caveat that I may be wrong stated up front, as I read things, this particular calculation is a project from the Institute of Systems Biology. My understanding is that the governing board of the World Community Grid organization (made up of scientists and others) has approved the ISB project as the first they (the WCG) have chosen to "host". My understanding from ISB's website is that they are a non-profit organization based in Seattle, however also on their web pages they have information about companies they have spun off. I don't mean to pick on the ISB. Presumably, the next project the WCG chooses to host will be authored by another group of dedicated scientists from another non-profit organization or from Universities. The same questions raised in the course of this thread will hold. I think there are some topics being a bit muddled in this thread. People reading this may want to know that results given in the scientific literature, presented by scientists at conferences or on websites etc, are "in the public domain" but behind critical findings are patents the parent authors, companies or institutions filed prior to making the results "public". Just because the WCG requires that "results must be made public" or "freely available.... within six months" doesn't mean that those results have not been utilized as the basis of a patent application. Also, with regard to non-profit organizations, big research universities are an example of a non-profit organization but they are routinely part owners of and receive benefits from huge numbers of biomedical and other patents issued to them and individual scientists working at them. Non-profit doesn't mean that an organization can't participate in a patent and receive revenue. Do the people here care about who gets to own and patent results from their donation of CPU time? Some will and some won't. A previous project by one of the WCG partners, that is described on WCG pages as being an example of how powerful this grid approach is smallpox project) is unclear about who owned the results - the "potential treatments to fight the deadly smallpox disease". On the other hand, the word potential there is a key. The results of calculations are just the first step in a long process that is hugely expensive to bring to fruition. That cost will be laid out by someone, just as would the computing cost have to be borne more heavily if it were not for participation by individuals in this or any other grid project. Much to think about. To me this whole concept is very worthy and exciting but the WCG organization could provide more clear understanding of how this is all structured. I think it should be more clearly stated upfront so that people can make a fully informed decision. Pen |
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Interesting discussion. I do know that IBM owns the copyright and trademark for both "World Community Grid" and "World Community Grid logo".
----------------------------------------http://www.ibm.com/legal/copytrade.shtml As for me, I plan to keep running it. <dataman> ![]() |
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Brace Potthoff
Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 19 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Pen said...
----------------------------------------"Just because the WCG requires that "results must be made public" or "freely available.... within six months" doesn't mean that those results have not been utilized as the basis of a patent application." Granted, but if they utilized the results as a basis for patents, wouldn’t they then be using the results for profitable purposes? If so, this would directly contradict their claim that the World Community Grid would be available “to projects conducted for public and not-for-profit purposes.” The way I see it, there seem to be to be two concerns here: (1) availability of the results to the public, and (2) the results being used to profit a particular company through patents and copyrights. In response to such fears, the web site has clearly stated that the World Community Grid is open to projects “for public and non-for-profit purposes.” Thus the fear that some company is going to patent the results is addressed, since patents are done for profits and this Grid is available only for non-profit purposes. The second concern—that the results be made known to the public—is addressed when the web site claims, “Results must be made available to the global research community by the sponsoring research organization and remain in the public domain.” Contrary to my previous concerns, I don’t see how patents and copyrights could wiggle their way into the projects our computers are working on, since those things, by definition, would make the projects a means to some company’s profit. As was pointed out earlier, that simply cannot be the case. Given the statements above, I simply don’t see how a particular company is able to reap financial benefits by patenting the results or keeping the results hidden from the rest of the world. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Brace Potthoff at Nov 19, 2004 12:18:30 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The data which this project reaps is important for humanity. It is important that this information is in the public domain. These are fundamental building blocks of humans. While the information will be for all to see and use, it will necessarilly be available to drug companies and research institutions worldwide, who will then be able to take this information into whatever research they happen to be doing and apply it where it fits. Of course it will eventually lead to profit for some of them. This is not a bad thing. What would be bad is if one university had control of all the information and only released it as they saw fit, so that they, and solely they could profit from it. That is what I dislike about Folding@Home. There is no transparency there and not even a promise of altruism.
I think this particular project is on the up and up. Justin |
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