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Falconet
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

I think the nasal spray treatment you are referring to is the one from the Baker Lab, although according to this Rosetta@home post, Rosetta@home was not directly involved in those specific designs.

'Although R@h was not directly used for the work described in the publication (link provided below), R@h was used for designing relevant scaffolds. Additionally, there are currently many similar designs that bind SARS-Cov-2 and related targets that were engineered using R@h.'

According to this page , the COVID Moonshot work has not yet begun clinical trials.
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AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W
AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W
AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Falconet at Jan 27, 2025 1:25:50 PM]
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cliviafreak
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

The COVID Moonshot also published its results free to use for anyone. This is much different than organizations that have billions of funding behind them looking to make money. Hence the slower going research. But perhaps something unique will come out of it.
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Occam
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

Likewise, I've been involved in DC long before WCG. It's best to run distributed computing as it's intended, to gain positive use from otherwise unused computing cycles. Build the computers you need for the work they do, and run BOINC as a charitable add-on. Want to beef them up a bit with that intention, then okay.

I don't see the use of dedicated DC only machines as the best use of resources, and we should all want our money to go as far as possible. My main workstation consumes $60 in electricity per month, and outputs heat that requires additional cooling from my AC unit. In addition, at the time it was ~$5k to build. Let's pretend this was a DC only machine. I KNOW my primary charity would benefit greatly from, and make very good of those funds every month, in addition to the lump sum. I'm pretty sure the MCM lab here would do so as well. So I do agree with the OP. That "investment" could be better utilized.


Having dedicated machines in the beginning I think was still a good idea and I made use of the extra electricity/heat in a beneficial way in the winter and only 1 monitor was needed and it was off 99% of the time and each computer had bare minimum ram. At that time DC was thought to have an imminent solution as computing was so new and was solving so many daily issues. It was a really exciting time. I'm glad that in the last couple years I didn't build a dedicated super machine. With Rosetta@home being my only other project, and even it has hit some rough times with support and that is really surprising considering their resources. I'll continue on with my main machine as it makes sense but unless things somehow change, I still think DC, as is, will be a hard sell in the near term.
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ericinboston
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

...I'll continue on with my main machine as it makes sense but unless things somehow change, I still think DC, as is, will be a hard sell in the near term.


I think the main issue about the "hard sell" is that nobody is promoting DC. WCG doesn't spend a single minute of the year promoting itself and the projects...and hasn't for 5+ years in my opinion.

So...nobody's gonna buy if they don't know you're selling.
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Occam
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

It's the chicken/egg thing. They could get all the PR in the world, there would be a big influx of crunchers, a big influx of funding, both who would certainly slowly slip away when they never hear about a cure and we'd not long in the future be right back to where we are today.
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danwat1234
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

It is my limited understanding that AI cannot simply accelerate the computation of a math problem that needs to be solved. As you know, the data sent to clients is some sort of Model (the big file when project is attached) And work units which are keys. The keys are computed against the model each time.  AI cannot accelerate this, same as if 7-zip  wanted to increase compression / decompression time with AI.

If there is data to infer and compare AI shines. Such as looking at results of computation.


Could Krembil develop a system that attains the same or more useful results without needing the massive iterative compute by utilizing AI?  possibly, but how much time and effort  would that take away from use the data they attain now and research what models and work units to generate? I think they have enough compute, they aren't asking for more  it is about the correct  pace. But if they coild, would  dramatically reduce power consumption  of project. But, they are working on GPU support. It will  be interesting if GPUs with CPU to feed, will perform all compute for Markers work units,  or if there will be stages of compute still CPU only. If CPU will stilp be necessary or a low-end to feed GPU will be a good match.


Lack of new projects.  I do not know how much of it is from lack of awareness of groups in the field that could use the charitable compute, or difficulty in setting up a project. Something  'Dockers' could help, which BOINC developer Vitalii Koshura is on top of. (EDIT https://aenbleidd.blogspot.com/2024/11/boinc-...tatus-report-october.html )Also i believe BOINC is getting  support for networked work unit compute, so-called 'Capability Compute' rather than traditional  Capacity Compute. (EDIT 'Sporadic' https://github.com/BOINC/boinc/wiki/Sporadic-Applications) So many ideas that professionals have requires communication because Work Units are related to each other so much, in my limited understanding.


Founders of BOINC, not just World Community Grid peeps wonder about the future of these platforms. I imagine Folding too.


We can spread public awareness by trying to make viral videos of the topic. WCG BOINC apparel and bumper stickers?

Gridcoin Benefactor contract idea could help awareness as well if implemented well.

Show the DeSci community, don't reinvent the wheel, BOINC is the way to go! 

100% agree on emails and updates of project efforts , would help plant the seed of reputation.
That's all I have for now off the top of my head.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by danwat1234 at Feb 9, 2025 10:49:02 PM]
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hchc
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

I've promoted both WCG and F@h (and R@h when their COVID project came out) to the medical community for many years, and I've only gotten <10 people to join the effort for WCG and F@h, and only 1-2 computed for more than a week but 100% lasted less than a year.

Many of these people are practicing health care professionals (physicans, pharmacists, veterinarians), and many have a solid bench research experience.

I've concluded some things:

  • They know something we don't know that in silico research has poor yield and just haven't expressed their opinions (I wish they would speak up and explain so I can learn!); and/or
  • Distributed computing is targeted towards more computer enthusiast personality types, which explains why ALL of the big tech forums (e.g. Linus Media Group, Overclockers, HardOCP, Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, Gamer's Nexus, et al) have huge teams of enthusiasts running DC projects on their enthusiast grade CPUs and GPUs and get involved with the friendly competitive aspect; and/or
  • The heatlh care community is below average in computer literacy (with respect to them! Just an observation); and/or
  • More people are buying laptop computers instead of desktop computers, and the heat generation and possible damage just isn't worth it. I've recommended that people be cognizant of their CPU/GPU temps and heat dissipation and scale and tweak their settings, but common people don't care to get involved in this.

Distributed Computing seems to be more readily embraced by the PC, PC gaming, and IT crowds over the clinical health care crowds or the general public. The only way to really get people excited for DC is for actual tangible results that lead to exciting cures for human diseases or cool scientific discoveries in physics/astronomy/etc. Otherwise people don't bite.

I love the concept, but I'm the exact personality type of computer enthusiast and science/engineering degree type who DC appeals to. But it's also frustrating that years go by without updates on promising leads for cancer, Alzheimer's, influenza drugs, etc. It's very low yield.

Electricity rates are skyrocketing in Europe and even in USA, and we're in a global inflationary trend that doesn't seem to stop. I don't see DC projects getting better without 1) more scientific breakthroughs and better communication and marketing; 2) better economies and people not struggling to buy food or pay for rent/mortgage.
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  • i5-7500 (Kaby Lake, 4C/4T) @ 3.4 GHz
  • i5-4590 (Haswell, 4C/4T) @ 3.3 GHz
  • i5-3570 (Broadwell, 4C/4T) @ 3.4 GHz

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by hchc at Feb 10, 2025 10:37:59 PM]
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spRocket
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

More people are buying laptop computers instead of desktop computers, and the heat generation and possible damage just isn't worth it. I've recommended that people be cognizant of their CPU/GPU temps and heat dissipation and scale and tweak their settings, but common people don't care to get involved in this.


Mini-PCs are a nice, energy-efficient way to crunch. They usually use laptop CPUs but have better cooling. There are a few laptops with heavy-duty cooling, but they tend to be expensive "portable workstation" machines.

One other thing we need to note is that not all of the DC world is English-speaking. The top team other than IBM is Team 2ch (from Japan), and there are teams from France, Germany, China, Taiwan, and plenty of other places in the top 100.
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Sesson
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

I live in an all-electric community where wood burning is not allowed as an alternative heat source due to fire control and air pollution laws. In the winter, the electricity for supporting BOINC adds nothing to our electric bill because the computer is simply another electric space heater.


Using PC for heating is less energy efficient than using the air conditioner. The air conditioner is a heat pump that moves heat from outside the room to inside the room, so it can easily produce more heat than the electricity it consumes. Also, the noise is smaller, and it can also shut down itself when the room is warm enough. I always turn my PC off when I go to bed, I can't bear even the slightest noise coming from the fans in the PC.
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ericinboston
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

More people are buying laptop computers instead of desktop computers, and the heat generation and possible damage just isn't worth it. I've recommended that people be cognizant of their CPU/GPU temps and heat dissipation and scale and tweak their settings, but common people don't care to get involved in this.


Mini-PCs are a nice, energy-efficient way to crunch. They usually use laptop CPUs but have better cooling...


Exactly. Take a look at the points in this thread . The thread isn't that long and I have some great examples of the Mac mini M2 machines with respect to purchase price, performance, electricity, and heat.
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