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Occam
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Losing the DC faith.

Having been involved 20+ years in DC projects and now revamping my computers, once again I'm seriously questioning the benefit. I spent a few hours here reading a lot of posts and from some other DC projects. Just finding it tough to start all over again as DC simply hasn't been what I and many others thought it would be over the years. The 2 main types left are the very high # cruncher's or those with a personal /medical tie to the research. I am neither. At least MCM is still up. As much time/energy put into this for the last 2 decades, cant say I feel real good about my investment. sad
[Jan 15, 2025 12:32:20 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Speedy51
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

I hope you feel better about your investment soon
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[Jan 15, 2025 2:22:56 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
ericinboston
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

Having been involved 20+ years in DC projects and now revamping my computers, once again I'm seriously questioning the benefit. I spent a few hours here reading a lot of posts and from some other DC projects. Just finding it tough to start all over again as DC simply hasn't been what I and many others thought it would be over the years. The 2 main types left are the very high # cruncher's or those with a personal /medical tie to the research. I am neither. At least MCM is still up. As much time/energy put into this for the last 2 decades, cant say I feel real good about my investment. sad


I could write for over an hour on the reasons why WCG has, in my opinion, failed (yet I am still here) but my 2 very quick points:

1)WCG failed by NOT very actively AND very continually promoting WCG.

2)I am bummed that, in laymen's terms, there are no results from all the computing power dedicated to these few WCG projects...especially the cancer ones. The updates from the MCM team every 6-12 months are deeply technical (that I cannot decipher) but still, in the end, have no results. No cures. No better medicines invented. No breakthroughs. No minor, helpful ways to battle cancer.

Despite my complaints, I am still here and still hold on for a miracle that someone at WCG will read my numerous complaints AND my suggestions for improvements and also ultimately I hope to read about some cancer breakthrough that can be credited back to WCG.
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[Jan 16, 2025 5:10:01 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Occam
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

Finally someone at least touching a small portion of reality in DC. I'm not new to this and have been doing it longer than the vast majority. I certainly WANT to believe as I ran 6+ 100% dedicated machines for years. Have you read the report on the decline of DC from one of the founders? I forgot the title but can find it. There really is little reason I can find to stay invested but it seems not far from dead except for the 2 groups I mentioned. I find that sad. Really have a tough time believing we didn't do much in 20 years and computers are light years ahead now and still not much. sad
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Lazarus Bird
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

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Jiuso
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

Hi there! I thought this question too, but there are reasons to trust these projects. I agree with your ideas, WCG doesn´t put effort at all in the marketing area, therefore we have much fewer crunchers than we would have with good marketing work.
The thing that you maybe haven´t thought of is that many of the completed projects have discovered new things, like proteins with inhibit capacity in the OpenZika project, new cancer markers in Mapping Cancer Markers, etc. Many of these completed projects haven´t discovered a cure, but they have made open science and now other scientists know where they shouldn´t go to get a treatment.
I recommend you read OpenZika's conclusions to understand what I mean (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36239304/).
Some scientists and engineers die before getting something, but they make the path that enables another to discover or make something possible. WCG has made this thing, and if they interact more with us they will finally find new treatments.
By the way, I´m finishing my Computer Science degree in Spain and my thesis will be about WCG and BOINC. My hope is that my university and more Spanish universities donate computer power to WCG and BOINC, that would be beautiful to see!
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ericinboston
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

...The thing that you maybe haven´t thought of is that many of the completed projects have discovered new things, like proteins with inhibit capacity in the OpenZika project, new cancer markers in Mapping Cancer Markers, etc. Many of these completed projects haven´t discovered a cure, but they have made open science and now other scientists know where they shouldn´t go to get a treatment.
I recommend you read OpenZika's conclusions to understand what I mean (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36239304/)...


This is part of the problem...I, Joe End User, 1)should not have to go digging for project results, 2)should not have to read technical jargon that only chemical and data scientists can decipher, and 3)WCG SHOULD ACTIVELY BE TRACKING PROJECTS, both current and finished, for YEARS after the Projects end and publish laymen-friendly Project Results on the WCG website.

I do, however, find this lack of 1)jargon and 2)project tracking to be an industry-wide problem in the medical field. How many times have we read in some magazine or TED Talk or 60 Minutes show or other interview about how X is making huge headway in the area of Y...and then, poof, we never ever ever hear an update again? Seriously. I'm not talking about wishy washy 5 minute tv shows or 1 page article...I'm talking about detailed conversations and then there is no followup.

I've long stressed that mainstream scientific magazines should be obligated to do a 1-year, 3-year, 5-year, and 10-year followup on every single original story. Sure, it's work. But it keeps people interested and stops sloppy, sensationalism journalism.

On a different note, although I won't write my book yet on WCG's failures (and likely other DC projects), here are my thoughts on why the # of Donors just keeps on plummeting over the years and these thoughts HAVE NOT been listed in articles I've read about why DC is basically dead:

The projects are aimed at recruiting non-technical, Joe Public citizens to help. Yet Joe Public has many hurdles to actually (and continually) help as time goes on:

1)They replace their computer and forget to install WCG. Because it ran so nicely in the background on their old machine, they likely completely forget to install on the new machine.

2)They replace their computer and don't remember their account info or find it too complex to reset so they just quit.

3)They replace their computer and the darn Power Save features are set so aggressively that essentially they are returning 0-2 results a day (and they don't realize that). This is very true of computers (desktops and laptops) that have been shipped since 2015. They are ALL set to save every second of battery life (or your electric bill if it's a desktop) and they hibernate or sleep. I've set up hundreds of Wintel and Macs since 2015 and this drives me crazy, especially for desktops.

4)The lack of emails is a killer. There should be emails to donors if they haven't returned a result in 3 months (regardless if their Project has ended) prompting them to act. There should be monthly emails about WCG and all its projects with simple summaries AND links to whatever. When a Project is going to make a major pause or end, there should be proactive emails alerting donors and asking them to try something new. Email is king to general users who should be getting updates every month or so...it goes right in their face automatically. They are not going to make a habit to go to Twitter or any other Social Media platform every few weeks and find their WCG page and go looking for an update. They simply wake up in the morning, open their mail, and find a nice message from WCG.


These 4 points, in my view, are major underlying reasons (that have not been discussed in other articles I've read) why DC Projects start off well, but then nose-dive in participation after a year or 2.

If anyone at WCG or MCM is listening to my points, I'd love to hear their feedback.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by ericinboston at Jan 23, 2025 5:09:10 PM]
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Sgt.Joe
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

I do, however, find this lack of 1)jargon and 2)project tracking to be an industry-wide problem in the medical field. How many times have we read in some magazine or TED Talk or 60 Minutes show or other interview about how X is making huge headway in the area of Y...and then, poof, we never ever ever hear an update again? Seriously. I'm not talking about wishy washy 5 minute tv shows or 1 page article...I'm talking about detailed conversations and then there is no followup. I've long stressed that mainstream scientific magazines should be obligated to do a 1-year, 3-year, 5-year, and 10-year followup on every single original story. Sure, it's work. But it keeps people interested and stops sloppy, sensationalism journalism.


+1

Cheers
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Sgt. Joe
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gj82854
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

Shouldn't this thread be in Suggestions/Feedback or Chat?
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Occam
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Re: Losing the DC faith.

I'm the OP and I considered where to put it and since MCM is what I do and it's still active, that was my rationale to put it here.

ericinboston- Fantastic post! Made sense and finally someone is putting some real effort into this and trying to make waves instead of just disappearing like many do. I am trying to do similar instead of walking away. And like you said, what really prompted me is my new computer system and am I really going to keep doing this. The article that really hit me was "BOINC in retrospect", an excellent read for anyone in DC. https://continuum-hypothesis.com/boinc_history.php I may not have placed the link correctly, if someone can fix it or tell me how. The article made so much sense in that I was there in the beginning and even visited them when I was on the West coast. That article could have been titled "my life in DC". It makes logical sense that DC SHOULD be a benefit, but man what a shock looking back on the massive amount of time everyone has put into it. The new cpu's have made computations seem like light years ahead of what we had in the late 90's and still come up way short. Don't think anyone in particular is to blame and the crunchers have done their part, especially those with basically super computers, those results, just wow.
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