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Jiuso
Cruncher Joined: Mar 28, 2024 Post Count: 5 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() |
I´ve read all your messages. Your ideas really make sense. World Community Grid and BOINC haven´t reached common people. The main cruncher profile is a technician one, and that´s bad because we need to get more different profiles crunching with us, too.
Could we make a documentary about BOINC? Maybe that´s what we need. In my case, I´m going to give talks at my university about BOINC, and my bachelor´s thesis will be about it, but I really think that BOINC deserves a documentary movie or even a book. |
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ericinboston
Senior Cruncher Joined: Jan 12, 2010 Post Count: 258 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
...The article that really hit me was "BOINC in retrospect", an excellent read for anyone in DC. https://continuum-hypothesis.com/boinc_history.php I may not have placed the link correctly, if someone can fix it or tell me how. The article made so much sense in that I was there in the beginning and even visited them when I was on the West coast. That article could have been titled "my life in DC". It makes logical sense that DC SHOULD be a benefit, but man what a shock looking back on the massive amount of time everyone has put into it. The new cpu's have made computations seem like light years ahead of what we had in the late 90's and still come up way short... Although I didn't read every sentence of that great article you linked, a few points still resonate in my mind about the issues with WCG or in the larger sense, BOINC that David Anderson didn't mention: 1)I've read dozens of times on BOINC and WCG and Seti@Home communities that they are not well funded, eat bread and water, are staffed "on a shoestring", only work West Coast time, and only work part-time M-F and are 100% volunteers. I hate to tell you, but any business or project that is designed to run like this is going to burn out very quickly. You need money, plain and simple. Volunteering is great (and I do) but to run a project 100% on volunteers as well as begging (and spending a good deal of your time doing so) for Funding is not how to run a project (outside of the medical and science worlds). 2)Why hasn't BOINC or WCG or DC in general given a Ted or Tedx Talk? They've been extremely popular since 2010 since they were widely available on Youtube and thus literally reach billions of people. So in 15 years we could never get a Ted Talk spot?! Heck, this 4.5 minute talk about drying your hands was showcased but WCG couldn't get one? Wow. 3)Lastly, all these problems create a circular reference: Projects aren't going to sign up to WCG if WCG isn't popular enough to drive donors. And donors aren't going to sign up to WCG if there's a shortage or unpopular choices of Projects. I'm not trying to pick on any projects but when the projects are rainfall in the Amazon and finding prime numbers, that's not exactly very exciting to drum up donors trying to help humanity. The only health projects on WCG are Cancer (which I love) and TB. Why aren't there more health projects that affect a vast majority of donors (and their families, loved ones, friends, peers at work, etc.) that WILL ATTRACT donors such as asthma, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Again, all these pitfalls and problems that led to a large decline in DC/BOINC/WCG interest would have and should have been foreseen by an actual group of paid individuals (from the business world who bring expertise) who work 40 hours a week all year long. ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by ericinboston at Jan 17, 2025 8:59:37 PM] |
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Occam
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Jan 1, 2024 Post Count: 73 Status: Offline |
Yeah, all good points and I know it's very tough for any non-profit type organization and when volunteer's are what you rely on, that's what you get. A volunteer is exactly that, a volunteer. I've been on the Board of many of these groups and it is very rare to get a highly skilled person with the right skills at a price you can afford. That's the reality. Without volunteer's we wouldn't be here. It's nice we have these super-crunchers as without them, I think many more projects would be gone. What we need is people joining by the tens of thousands. It's really not that much but we're headed the other way. If results are not such that when long time people leave, their wont be a replacement and that is exactly what has happened over the years. Also, as new people look at DC, which are very few, likely due to much of what you stated, they quickly come to the conclusion that this is some tech-y thing as DC simply can't sell itself. It has to be sold to the public. At one time about a year ago I planned to visit Krembil and see what help they needed, but interest faded as my opinion did of DC in general. Having the technical folks, no matter how good or dedicated they are, trying to run the PR portion just will not work well. I know, money. I get it. However, doing the same thing over and over, grant to grant will keep us right where we are. A lot of issues to be dealt with. One good has come out of this in that had this thread died an early death, I would have likely moved on but it did at least show that some here have enough interest and are willing to voice their opinion that I did devote a new multi-core machine to crunch away again.
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7658 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I would have likely moved on but it did at least show that some here have enough interest and are willing to voice their opinion that I did devote a new multi-core machine to crunch away again. We are glad you are back and have decided to stay for while. Your contribution is valued. Cheers
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers* |
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alged
Master Cruncher FRANCE Joined: Jun 12, 2009 Post Count: 2358 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
YES YOU WELCOME Your contribution is the first thing as we all can do to make WCG ALIVE !
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Sesson
Cruncher Joined: May 16, 2020 Post Count: 3 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() |
It's just that we haven't or can't provide enough computing power yet. The leader of another DC project, Rosetta@home just won the 2024 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. That's a great achievement, but it still looks like they haven't found anything for the participant of the project. And also that project is currently out of work. It's not that they have nothing to do, but that they are well funded enough to use supercomputers. Nowadays, supercomputers can easily provide more computing power than an entire DC project. The supercomputer owner doesn't complain about why there's a break of work distribution, doesn't need PR, doesn't have memory limitations, doesn't have data protection issues.
Currently, there's a rush for more computing power amid the generation AI trend across many disciplines, including medicine. But none of these many scientists are using DC. They are paying for cloud and supercomputers, this computing demand cannot be satisfied by DC projects. Finally, I also do not recommend people to join DC project either unless they have free electricity. Your computer will be like a hair blower, because the CPU and GPU are designed to boost to the maximum to increase a few % of FPS in games at the cost of power efficiency. Then you either have to underclock the computer and downgrade your PC experience, or continue to push out hot air using free electricity if you have. Not to mention memory requirements etc. |
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7658 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
DC projects of this sort are doing work which otherwise will not be donedue to lack of funding or lack of other resources. They may or may not provide the breakthroughs we dire, but that does not mean we should stop looking. Free electricity would be a nice benefit, but nothing in life is really free. I can spend some of my resources on playing some mindless game or I can spend it on something which I hope is going to be useful. In any case I usually doing some other work and BOINC is running in the background very unobtrusively. True, my cpu is being maxed out, but the marginal effect on my electric bill is what I can still afford. I would like to have the resources to have the biggest, baddest, most modern and efficient machines, but that is not in the cards. I think this is a better use of my resources that a lot of other frivolous things I could be doing.
----------------------------------------Cheers
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers* |
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Occam
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Jan 1, 2024 Post Count: 73 Status: Offline |
Rosetta@Home has done a lot and found a lot of technology that a user can say to someone "this is what DC has done". It is a totally different animal than WCG and is the only other DC project I currently support. For finances and support, they are 5-star as they want for very little. That is not WCG. I agree that AI and machine learning models are the future. They will soon provide at a level that will in some fashion replace what some of us have tried to do for 20 years. Will there still be a need for us in the short term, yes, but, the age of AI is upon us and if it can be used to benefit society, then it's a win-win.
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Taurus Oldbull
Advanced Cruncher US Joined: Nov 26, 2020 Post Count: 53 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I live in an all-electric community where wood burning is not allowed as an alternative heat source due to fire control and air pollution laws. In the winter, the electricity for supporting BOINC adds nothing to our electric bill because the computer is simply another electric space heater.
IMO, I agree that the availability of cheap super-computing and AI will indeed limit DC to an ever-smaller range of useful projects. |
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Occam
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Jan 1, 2024 Post Count: 73 Status: Offline |
Ironically, the faster the processor for consumer level, the less power they use. Every time there's a new processor, more powerful and it uses less electricity. I stopped using some old dual-core machines as they don't make much sense anymore. I know what your talking about as when I was running 6 machines on DC, in the winter I put them where I slept as it was in effect a space heater. AI is so cheap and popular and one this wave passes, will become even cheaper.
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