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Category: Support Forum: Suggestions / Feedback Thread: [Solved] WCGrid Cost-Benefit Analysis |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 133
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wcgridmember
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Post Count: 110 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
So, you're suggesting I divide my estimation by 10, is that it?
----------------------------------------But then, 10 may be too much. There are computers with two or four cores (threads) crunching too (ignoring the vetely one core computers). So, in my calculations one should replace: "1 day runtime" with an estimation of the average days of runtime the WCGrid devices would run if put working 24/7 to account for that. [Edit 2 times, last edit by wcgridmember at Apr 11, 2020 11:13:24 PM] |
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wcgridmember
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Post Count: 110 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
The numbers we get to in the end are not impressing me, though. You could've made these estimations long ago and I would be satisfied. :-) #CrunchingMatters
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Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 13, 2009 Post Count: 1066 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
So, you're suggesting I divide my estimation by 10, is that it? But then, 10 may be too much. There are computers with two or four cores (threads) crunching too (ignoring the vetely one core computers). So, in my calculations one should replace: "1 day runtime" with an estimation of the average days of runtime the WCGrid devices would run if put working 24/7 to account for that. Yes, 10 looks good to me. But if you want another number, go ahead and use it. Over time, the average number of cores will increase as people upgrade their machines. I happen to run my machines 24/7, so that is the way I usually look at it. But that really doesn't matter to your calculation. You just need an estimate of how many CPU core-days (or years) each project takes. Then divide that by 10 (or whatever) and you have the number of machine-years it will take. You can use that for your total energy calculation. Remember, the power is given in watts (or kilowatts), but it is the energy that the power company charges for. That price is given usually in kilowatt-hours. So you take the (kilo)watts the average machine uses, and multiply it by the total time it will take to do the project. The fact that a thousand machines are in use instead of one is irrelevant. It just means that the project is done in one-thousandth of the time it would take if only one machine were doing it, but the total energy would be the same. Good luck, but I don't really have need of the calculation myself, since I think the value of the information is probably worth it, but can't know it for sure at this point anyway. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Ok, I did an estimate myself, you can find the details here:
https://dc.sheridon.de/the-cost-of-world-community-grid Result: replacing WCG's computing power with a high number of my best cruncher (a Ryzen 2700 - 13,200 of this would be needed in total) would cost approximately 2.7 million USD per year. |
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Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 13, 2009 Post Count: 1066 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Result: replacing WCG's computing power with a high number of my best cruncher (a Ryzen 2700 - 13,200 of this would be needed in total) would cost approximately 2.7 million USD per year. That looks reasonable enough to me. Remember, we are replacing a large super-computer. And we are distributing the heat and power load around, so there are savings on heating costs too if we do it right. Also, I was assuming that you buy the equipment specifically for WCG, which is how I do it. But most people just run it as an additional project, and really buy their machines for other purposes, such as email, web browsing or gaming. So I am really over-estimating the equipment cost a bit. You would have to do quite a survey if you really wanted to know how the machines are used. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Jim1348 at Apr 12, 2020 2:05:15 PM] |
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wcgridmember
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Post Count: 110 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
I thank you all for your contributions, I am "converted" again to WCGrid! Now, we need to focus more effort on bringing on more people. Does anybody have an idea of a viral video or something we could do to aim for that? Or some kind of fun thing for inviters and invitees alike to enjoy spreading the word and keep their computers crunching? I guess the badge for # of friends crunching is not enough of an incentive. Do you know of any other thread where any of these things are being discussed?
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gta198
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: Apr 8, 2020 Post Count: 309 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Yeah explain things in english so newbies don't get headaches trying to figure out what's going on.
The people you are trying to draw in do not use computers as a dedicated hobby and don't know technical terms or want to know them. They use their computers to surf the web, do accounting, run businesses and for entertainment. Before the hard core turn their noses up at this, how many of you know exactly how everything in your car works? Do you know all the technicalities of every device your use? How about the nitty gritty details of the cargo ships that brought your hardware to this country? Point is people use their computers as tools. They do not wish to know everything possible about their tools. They want plain ( yes simple ) language that tells them what is going on. You may know every nut and bolt of the systems, but they don't. They are not ignorant, they have their own interests. How many techs know the ins and outs of banking? Gyroscopic design? Bridge engineering? The computer is simply a tool to them like a fan is a tool to you that some one else knows all the engineering of. I know I'm being long winded, but I think the techno speak is what keeps people away and drives some already in away. It's fine to have the techno, but include an area for the mechanical engineer who uses computers as a tool and is not interested in how they work. He is not stupid or lazy, he just has different priorities and has come here wanting to help, but isn't interested in climbing the mountain of technical detail in order to do so. If you want more people to join up, make it easier for them to do so |
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Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 13, 2009 Post Count: 1066 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
If you want more people to join up, make it easier for them to do so That is what David Anderson (the originator of BOINC) is doing with his new Science United project. It should be simpler, though I have not tried it myself. It includes WCG, along with various other projects. I think you just select the general area you want to contribute to. https://scienceunited.org/ |
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gta198
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: Apr 8, 2020 Post Count: 309 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
There is one question that is asked on a regular basis online " Is there a minimal operating system I can use with just boinc in a dedicated cruncher?"
The usual answer when there is one is "learn all about Linux's many distros, choose one and strip it down to the essentials and add boinc". That's fine for a techno, but to most people it might as well be in Swahili. They want to know if there is already a "canned package" they can set up a dedicated machine with. By asking they are letting you know they are not inclined to take on a second career in computing, but they want to help the cause. |
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KerSamson
Master Cruncher Switzerland Joined: Jan 29, 2007 Post Count: 1671 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Hi gta198,
----------------------------------------installing Linux Mint (19.3) or Ubuntu (18.04) is much less demanding than setting up Windows, especially for a dedicated machine. The benefit in terms of computational efficiency is significant. If you do not feel confident with installing Linux alone, I am sure that you could be able to find some local help to do this. The Linux community is wide and there is a lot of willing to help people, including during local events. Otherwise, there is a lot of discussion forums. Cheers, Yves |
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