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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Backtracking to somewhere in Chapter one
- hey, you’re back  and with a very pleasant song at that and I backtrack because I forgot something: diminutives It's just that some words need a 'p' or a 't' Exactly! That is a very funny thing. Not to be explained except for the sake of audioesthetics  We do not to the best of my knowledge have diminutives in Denmark (but one may be hiding somewhere - I made a mental note to look for them). This trick putting an additional letter into words, is something we also use, broadly, gladly and in general. We have a lot of words that are strung together like Waddeneilanden from several separate words, and nothing prevents us from expanding them into infinity. Playful Hans Christian Andersen led the way: gedebukkebensoverogundergeneralkrigskommandersergenten where the 13th letter ’s’ is there for entirely phonetic reasons. Also  I was so embarrassed that I knew so little of Dutch culture (Paul Verhoeven - and I checked: I have watched a total of 1 Dutch movie ) that I’m pretty proud to be able to announce that I clearly remember a song, I actually hear it in my head fairly often, that hardly will make your current book, but which also has a diminutive:Een beetje Just a lillebittje intermezzo – I’ll be back |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
First installment – third chapter
have you hugged your digraph today? …. my profession is computer programmer at a Dutch dictionary company and nowadays I'm compiling colourful reference books from the 'Nederlandse Top 40' charts (containing all songs from 1965 till now that ever entered the charts) each two or three years. Oh, that gives you the best of at least three worlds, provided you also like music, which I’m sure you do based on your pick far ^^^^^ there; what kind of music do you prefer? Do you listen to these Top 40 as you compile the manuscripts to check the lyrics? If the quality of Dutch pop music is like the Danish equivalent, it could be a blessing AND a curse ...  As just demonstrated with Een Bettje, I have a long memory, fairly selective, though and nut very useful, actually somewhat nutty and kind of a garage sale … who needs to know that Ivan the Terrible singlehandedly decapitated 42 people? Because I entered the well charted waters of Grand Prix songs, I shall present to you --- da, DA! --- the Danish entry from 1957: Skibet skal sejle i nat I have a better version, but my point is to show you why WE DID NOT WIN! Many things we disagree about in Denmark, but one thing unites us: That this song was dumped simply ’cause (using your way of writing) the finale Kuss was too long, too intense, and too juicy for Europe of 1957. The better sound – and the lyrics – you have here but whomever has written those words has not had access to æ-ø-å but has had to resort to ae-oe-aa. Well, this only took care of a bettje of chapter 3 and not even all three legs of your profession … mea culpa ’cause I got carried away in our national indignation at the injustice of 1957 I shall be back - promise or threat? |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Second installment - third chapter
----------------------------------------- can you suffer from grammar deficiency? ... my profession is computer programmer at a Dutch dictionary company and nowadays I'm compiling colourful reference books from the 'Nederlandse Top 40' charts (containing all songs from 1965 till now that ever entered the charts) each two or three years. Using this same quote 'cause I didn't finish even one § except maybe for the music part. I like your choice of "Lorilee". For some muddy reason I found it proper to start out with an orthodox gründlich-Deutsch version. I never heard the David Gates "Lorilee" - didn't even know the man - now it's played into tatters already ...Music part over - for now. On to the computer programming part. What would the skeleton (Beinhaus) of a program that helps you manage - it must be - thousands of songs look like? Which language do you use for programming? Or do you have programs that program programs? And the book part: The end results are actually tangible books of paper, ink, and glue for sale at Amazon etc. and to put on the shelves of libraries, I see from your link. That must be a good feeling. I tried to look up your name in our central library database without result. To be fair, the subject matter may be a little too specialized for a Danish ?audience?. However, we seem to have a blind angle toward the southwest. Still, just recalling: In my Danish literature book club one year we had a lady who had been married to a Dutchman and who translated from Dutch into Danish. To give David Gates a rest, I'm now listening to a quite energetic "Geef mij maar Holland aan 't IJsselmeer" on YouTube. Now on to the language part: I realize that people producing words on paper or anywhere need/ought to have a sober relationship to at least their native language. But your interest seem to surpass that requirement by any measure. Where does that come from? Mudflat hiking There's not a strong need to do that in my opinion.  Did you hear my roar of laughter resulting from that statement?Neither me?/I?  - who otherwise celebrate the principle of "everything should be tried at least once in one's lifetime" feel any uncontainable urge to do so.Mermaids, meermins, zeemeermins, meerman, zeevrouw - and now female sailors too! Adri, my head is spinning. I think I better change my name into "The Little Match Girl". After all it's so sad with that mermaid. And the love part: shouldn't we just agree to give that halffish who sat there and watched the prince she loved being meeried to a blonde with legs some 'meer min'? You have no idea how difficult it is for me even with a well functioning tail fin to navigate those meers and zees. Mevrouw I - who really didn't and still don't have any sensible sense of Dutch - probably just liked the word 'mevrouw' because it had an air of politeness to it beyond what is normal in Denmark now; besides, in my head it sounded zacht. Titulations such as Mr, Mrs and Miss - not to mention Ms have slipped out of usage. It may have happened at the introduction of 'you' - du - as the way to address all people in speech and writing. Before that we had better manners, maybe. We did not say 'du' to people we did not know well, but had a form of address similar to the German 'Sie' (De, Dem, Deres). Now the only one we address this way is the queen. How is that in Dutch? - to be continued when my eyes stop meandering  [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Oct 17, 2017 8:06:58 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Third installment - third chapter - still laughing - unable to forget your mudflat hike remark To my question if you had done that hiking specialty, you replied: Not that I know. You're not really sure? I would think you would notice if you did a mudflat hike - all that silt seeping up between your toes ....  And here is the oyster's pearl: There's not a strong need to do that in my opinion. You made my day for a couple of months, Adri  'v' is pronounced as a 'w' in Danish - no 'f' sound? So the German 'v' (fau) never crossed your eastern border? I think I remember Willy van der Kerkhof (he must have played a big role for me - even bigger than Johan Cruyff) being pronounced - 'fan' der .. - but then again: the pronouncer was always Danish.'V' and 'w' in Danish are pronounced exactly the same unless we choose to give it an American twang. We don't to my knowledge have any native words beginning with a 'w' as you do - only imports like Weltschmerz and Wonderful. Why would you call the Waddenzee one with a 'doubleW' if a 'singleV' would do? Is there a difference in pronunciation or is it rather a visual thing? Would 'Vaddenzee' be out of the question? And, yes, although the spelling of New Zealand is the same as for my island in Denmark, Zealand (Sjælland) In Dutch we call it Seeland. And this is where the quoting and coloring ran amok.  Sorry. I tried to untangle it. A lot. Believe me. Live with it, please. I am willing to let your Zeeland have the copyright for that one.
(wipes forehead) Whoa. Phew! Don't worry. You're too qualified for me to pick a quarrel not to mention a territorial strife with you. Well, 'meerminnen' is the plural of 'meermin' and to make matters even more complicated, 'min' means "love" and it also means "minus". So, if there is more love ('meer min'), than I'm convinced that men won't stop falling in love with mermaids, because (after changing 'meerminnen' to 'meermin') there are 'minder minnen' (less minuses). Now that is pure logic! Pure Logic! To you, yes, but how about to the mermaid?  You shall not succeed in dragging me into that jungle of tangled seaweed ('tang' in Danish) again. If need be, I'll turn into a land living creature of some kind - a weasel maybe - or an ezel. And why do the Dutch want it this complicated? A 'havfrue' and a 'havmand' one woman and one man would do, mefinks. Is there a mythological reason for all the subspecies and mutations? Not to mention the minnen (plural min), minder (less), meer (the lake), meer (the more). Good grief! Beware, Adri, I'm throwing in my wet and knotty towel into the ring right now We could also talk about the degrees of comparison (bad-worse-worst) of 'weinig' (German: wenig) or a 'worstkaasscenario', or the alliterating 'met man en muis vergaan' and 'met twee maten meten', or palindromes like 'maandnaam' and 'meetsysteem'. Sure, why not? Sounds relaxing after all that swimming. Do you really mean to say that you in earnest say and write 'worstkaasscenario'? You make me think of Norwegian which also have some deeply enchanting words such as 'trøbbel'- trouble pronounced in the Norwegian way which for the most part make me smile because of the 'melody ' - the uppitch in the end of most sentences that make them sound like questions. And there is more where that came from. It seems as if 'worstkaasscenario' comes out of that vein. I'm sorry, but palindromes never really tickled me. Do they tickle you? The same goes for anagrams. Fetiches can be so discriminating and specific One of mine is Peterbilt trucks. Not Scania Vabis, not White, not Mack. Peterbilts. The ones with the square nose  We could also talk about the degrees of comparison (bad-worse-worst) of 'weinig' (German: wenig) or the alliterating 'met man en muis vergaan' and 'met twee maten meten' .... to be rolled over into the next installment, please  - to be continued when I have taken lessons in how to say a lot using a minimum of words  |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2346 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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First installment … third chapter have you hugged your digraph today? my profession is computer programmer at a Dutch dictionary company and nowadays I'm compiling colourful reference books from the 'Nederlandse Top 40' charts (containing all songs from 1965 till now that ever entered the charts) each two or three years. Oh, that gives you the best of at least three worlds, provided you also like music, which I'm sure you do based on your pick far ^^^^^ there; what kind of music do you prefer? Do you listen to these Top 40 as you compile the manuscripts to check the lyrics? If the quality of Dutch pop music is like the Danish equivalent, it could be a blessing AND a curse ... The broad scala of popmusic is my main preference. When checking lyrics, of course there's a need to listen to the song itself for accuracy. There are many high quality performing artists in the Netherlands, like Golden Earring — you will probably like Caro Emerald — her colleague Anouk — the band Kensington — and I could of course go on and on with Shocking Blue, Tee Set, George Baker Selection, BZN …¦ Because I entered the well charted waters of Grand Prix songs, I shall present to you --- da, DA! --- the Danish entry from 1957: Skibet skal sejle i nat Well, apart from the intro in a low minor key, I find it not too bad for that period of time. If you see the subtitled video, then you can easily grasp it's about a ship sailing away. The long kiss is 'begreiflich' if it's a kiss to say goodbye to your loved one.I have a better version, but my point is to show you why WE DID NOT WIN! Returning to 'Een beetje'. It's strange that in English you have 'a bit' and 'a little bit' (een beetje), but there isn't a matching 'beet' to use in Dutch. There's only the diminutive 'beetje'. (It's derived from 'bijten' (to bite). The Dutch word 'beet' means: a bite.) Remarkable — to return to the subject of the ESC (Eurovision Song Contest), now that we're on it — in 1983, in the preliminary round, there was this Dutch band Vulcano with the song 'Een beetje van dit, een beetje van dat' (a little bit of this, a little bit of that). Maybe you also know Anouk's song 'Birds' from 2013 and the Common Linnets performing 'Calm after the storm' (2014)? [Edit 1 times, last edit by adriverhoef at Oct 18, 2017 9:29:14 AM] |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2346 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Second installment - third chapter Glad you like David Gates' song Lorilee so much and it's good that digital computer bytes don't get tattered (apart from bitrot). I'll try answering some of your questions about programming now. First some clarification. The book is not about the lyrics, it's about the chart positions, the chart facts, how long the songs remained in the charts. Artists in alphabetical order, their songs (hits) sorted chronologically. All number ones, the biggest hits and more stuff. Most programs that I write are basically in the Bash Shell language around large parts of Perl, 'sort' and some little C programs. Data are stored in XML. Mevrouw In the Netherlands, addressing people in official letters with "Mevr." (mevrouw, Mrs) and "Dhr." (de heer, Mr) (mostly on bills) is common practice and it is polite and respectful.I - who really didn't and still don't have any sensible sense of Dutch - probably just liked the word 'mevrouw' because it had an air of politeness to it beyond what is normal in Denmark now; besides, in my head it sounded zacht. In the Netherlands and Belgium (Flanders) you address adults with 'u' (pronounced as the German ü). Children are addressed with 'je' (pronounced as the last syllable of the song "Een beetje" (beet-je)). Between friends it's also 'je'. There is also the oldfashioned 'ge', used in some parts of the country (often pronounced as German -chen without the n). |
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KLiK
Master Cruncher Croatia Joined: Nov 13, 2006 Post Count: 3108 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Nice to see someone inspired. Great to read all your posts.
----------------------------------------You almost describe the similarities between Slavic languages, as they are very much similar. Don't have time to write something in...but promise I'll do that in future. ;) |
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adriverhoef
Master Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Apr 3, 2009 Post Count: 2346 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Third installment - third chapter All right, and I mean this very seriously, there's a hole in my shoe. All mud will trickle into it.And here is the oyster's pearl: There's not a strong need to do that in my opinion. You made my day for a couple of months, Adri 'v' is pronounced as a 'w' in Danish - no 'f' sound? I think I remember Willy van der Kerkhof (he must have played a big role for me - even bigger than Johan Cruyff) being pronounced - 'fan' der .. - but then again: the pronouncer was always Danish. It is pronounced "vann" (Vulcano: Een beetje van dit), I'm afraid.  There's quite a difference between the hard V and the soft f in Verhoe  f.'V' and 'w' in Danish are pronounced exactly the same (…) Would 'Vaddenzee' be out of the question? Yes, V and W are totally different. The 'w' in English 'twelve' comes close to the Dutch 'w' in the Dutch 'twaalf' (12) and the 'f' and the 'v' in 'five' are practically the same as the 'f' and 'v' in the Dutch word 'vijf' (5), it's only that we have the letters 'f' and 'v' in 'vijf' in reversed order, compared to 'five', we begin with the hard v and close with the soft f. Do you really mean to say that you in earnest say and write 'worstkaasscenario'? Yes, but only used when being less serious; it's a word that was made up in Dutch 'cause it matches the Dutch words 'worst' (sausage) and 'kaas' (cheese ), just for the fun of it, it makes Dutch people laugh, 'cause they recognize it as an English word that was changed into a non-existing word.So, no palindromes. No tickling, just fascinating. One thing though, about the '-je'. We have 'meid' (English: maid, German: Schöne Maid), but no word fallback for 'meisje' (Deutsch: Mädchen, E: girl, French: jeune fille). I had to laugh when you said you wanted to change into an ezel. I think a Dutchman would never say that.  [Edit 1 times, last edit by adriverhoef at Oct 18, 2017 2:17:41 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Installment completely beyond of any logic order
- just 'cause Top 40 What would qualify a song to enter the Top40? Should both music and lyrics be in Dutch? Or just the lyrics? Please meet DenmarkâÂÂs Mr Popmusic Jørgen de Myliuswho has done not only Danish Top 20 but covered popmusic in worldwide in general since 1963. He is Danish, but I think I heard mentioned that he was of Dutch descent. Would 'de Mylius' ring a Dutch bell? I also give you a a playlist of Danish Top 20 music 1968-1977 Regardless of how you like this line of music, I think it is a historical documentation which is just as important as anything else. A few of the songs are actually good and well performed even to me who glaublich meer ein Buchpersonin ist even as I restart Lorilee hoping not bitrot is lurking. The psychologists call it 'perception'; when you drive along in your car and get hungry, your mind orders your eyes to concentrate on seeking out places to eat - most other things step into the background. If something makes you extra interested in the Netherlands, you will learn that Sultan and Sayeeda arrived in the Netherlands from Magic World Amusement Park near Aleppo, Syria yesterday. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-28/a-tiger...m-a-destroyed-amu/8753976 - an news item I would not have noticed a week ago. I have some problems getting my post - composed in "Word" or "Notebook" coming out as I want. Jørgen ^^ I had to tie down using the option 'Code'. And now it seems to stick without 'code'. You can see how 'DenmarkâÂÂs' came out. If I make a - (hyphen) it will also get distorted, and the apostrophes as well as other things, the website seem to think is strange, so I have to correct a lot. Even if I write directly on this website, I get problems with æ-ø-Ã¥ whereas the ' " - seem to stay put. You are a programmer, Adri. What do I do wrong? Have I given the forum bitrot?  And how can I correct it? It even refused to get colored navy right away And now, when I try do demonstrate what I have been up against, everything works beautifully. Typical! Absolutely typical! AHA! Now I get a clue: Preview it often enough, and it breaks down and turns Egyptian! Even the coded Jørgen breaks apart - I'll get my handkerchief and be back later  |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello KliK
Nice to see you here. Did you miss us? Slavic languages: Where I live we have six apartments in my stairway. In one of them a retired Serbian couple lives – arrived as 'guest workers' in the 1970's - and in another a young Bosnian couple who came as refugees lives with their three children who, and they understand each other in their native language and speak Danish with me. |
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