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-Helle-
Cruncher Denmark Joined: Feb 27, 2010 Post Count: 28 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
-Helle-... I think you're getting issues mixed up... "they don't have enough ressources", "they need to focus on important things", "they don't have time to implement badges", The current status of the WCG projects (which was my was my original comment) has nothing to do with the issues you list. It has to do with economy (the sequester), scientists and technology complexity. My comment had nothing to do with scientists - it is comments frequently seen by crunchers telling other crunchers why things here are not implemented "they are busy..." The "busy" part would probably be true (see next comment)How do you know this? Are you just repeating what has already been said? Do you REALLY know what you're talking about? Yeah, I know what I'm talking about, because I work for IBM IBM is huge and I assume everyone is busy. Can you talk on behalf of WCG? Why are you defending this? Why do you accept this lack of information? huh... I'm not defending the points you listed (which have nothing to do with my original comment) and there hasn't been a lack of information: the status (and the why of that status) of the projects has been repeated ad nauseam My comment was regarding crunchers in general who for some odd reason seem to defend whatever WCG communicates/doesn't communicate. I very much disagree to your comment about there hasn't been lack of information from WCG side. E.g. recently a WCG tech commented in SN2S thread that they weren't planning on running it on full speed. 2 days later the same person announced that there was no more work. I assume the no-work didn't come as a surprise. But still the no-communication strategy was chosen Hmm I disagree. I'm here because I think it's fun. Great, I think it's fun too, but the WCG isn't here to satisfy your or my whims. It's here to provide help to the scientists and technicians to find solutions, treatments and hopefully cures to terrible diseases that affect our world and improving technologies that can make this a better place to live. The point that we can help find medical solutions and provide help to technology and on top have fun is why I'm here crunching away.quote] Sure, but they can't do it without us ---------------------------------------- ![]() |
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-Helle-
Cruncher Denmark Joined: Feb 27, 2010 Post Count: 28 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I expect that means some poor suffering programmer trying to debug alpha code deserves our sympathy. What else can I say? Lawrence But why is it so difficult for WCG to communicate? Why why why don't you just tell us "can't beta-do this thing because scientists are on vacation", because alpha-test went wooooh, "because 80% of staff is sick", whatever.... ![]() |
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jonnieb-uk
Ace Cruncher England Joined: Nov 30, 2011 Post Count: 6105 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
But why is it so difficult for WCG to communicate? Why why why don't you just tell us "can't beta-do this thing because scientists are on vacation", because alpha-test went wooooh, "because 80% of staff is sick", whatever.... Back in May jhindo [Chief] WCG Admin said: But we are starting to think about our communication strategy overall: what to notify members of and how to communicate that information. Seems the outcome of the rethink was to communicate less rather than more! ![]() ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by jonnieb-uk at Sep 20, 2013 11:26:25 PM] |
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AgrFan
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: Apr 17, 2008 Post Count: 374 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
To decrypt for Safak, FAH is the Grid world reference to FoldingAtHome [and they're running on BOINC]. Folding@Home does NOT have a BOINC client. There was a proof of concept conducted many years ago by Pande Group at Stanford that never went anywhere. FAH runs on it's internally developed software and technical infrastructure. I ran it for some time before moving fully over to WCG. Got tired of the constant server outages and work unit issues. Maybe you meant Docking@Home? [Edit 6 times, last edit by AgrFan at Sep 21, 2013 2:14:05 AM] |
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AgrFan
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: Apr 17, 2008 Post Count: 374 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I have read on a number of threads that the WUs for SN2S are intermittent and in shortish supply...yeah right. I've got hundreds of them here and I'd really like to be doing something else for a while. Check your machines. I think you'll find mostly FAAH and CEP2 units now. They should keep you busy until the next project is launched. The latest "small batch" of SN2S work should be fully complete in a few days. We are finishing up resends right now. [Edit 3 times, last edit by AgrFan at Sep 21, 2013 2:28:47 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
To decrypt for Safak, FAH is the Grid world reference to FoldingAtHome [and they're running on BOINC]. Folding@Home does NOT have a BOINC client. There was a proof of concept conducted many years ago by Pande Group at Stanford that never went anywhere. FAH runs on it's internally developed software and technical infrastructure. I ran it for some time before moving fully over to WCG. Got tired of the constant server outages and work unit issues. Maybe you meant Docking@Home? This sentence construct was a test: The explicit bracketing had after speaking of "Grid world", not "BOINC World", had a purpose, where unfortunately the ENNOTEA after "they're" fell off the keyboard ;>) And we crunch what we like to crunch... then 5 minutes later someone opens a thread with 'What's the FAH status?". Truly, honestly, totally disinterested what the heck they're doing. |
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KodeX
Advanced Cruncher Germany Joined: Aug 17, 2006 Post Count: 92 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
It is good to see that I am not the only one who is upset with the current situation of the WCG.
----------------------------------------The reason why I joined WCG in 2006, was that I liked the idea to help science to solve problems of mankind. Compared to other projects/grids the WCG became my favorite since it was working on serveral issues/(multi-)projects. I had the feeling that I can help to fix several huge problems of mankind by crunshing WCG WUs. This was and is my motivation to run BOINC and to spend my money for it. Unfortunately if I do the same comparison today, my result is different, based on two points: #1 In the last years I did not see results based on the work we do here. I am sure the WCG helped to reach some major achievements, but I have not seen/understood any information about it. There are updates by scientists on a regular base, this is good. But for people who dont have English as a first language, those reports are hard to understand. In my eyes it should be the work of the WCG-staff to communicate those archivements to the people in a way they can understand. #2 The huge advantage of the WCG to be a multi-project grid is gone. There are only 3 projects remaining. With the current situation of WU-supply people cannot choose what they would like to spend their power(=money) for. It's Hobson's choice, but this will not work since we are here on a voluntary base. More communication by the WCG staff would help a lot to keep people motivated. But I do not see communication. It cannot be to hard so give a short update every two weeks or so what is going on. The community should be worth the 10mins it takes to post an update. WCG is competing against other grids. It has (currently) lost the multi-project feature, and there is like no communication with the community. Once again, WCG is for me atm Hobson's choice, take it or leave it. And, to be honest, I will not take it that much longer. [Edit 1 times, last edit by KodeX at Sep 21, 2013 9:21:18 AM] |
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KerSamson
Master Cruncher Switzerland Joined: Jan 29, 2007 Post Count: 1671 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I agree with many comments here.
----------------------------------------Since I have business experience with some large organisations/companies, I feel constantly the typical communication dilemma of big US companies. In order to ensure that nothing wrong could be communicated the communication becomes rare and useless. It is clear that it is necessary to clearly manage (and sometimes to restrict) the communication. However, since we are contributing to public projects, with public domain results, since the members finally spend, over the years, a lot of money, I think that it is not too demanding to ask for a more transparent and reliable communication. I can remember that, many years ago, some people mentioned the necessity for WCG to involve some contributor/member representatives in order to avoid a kind of autism from "WCG management and staff" to the members. If WCG should have a living and rich future, I think that the partnership between members and WCG management should be strongly improved. That is called "Governance"! I would like to come back to my previous post. Graphical communication is a wonderful and efficient way to share simply information, progress, challenge, or result without spending too much time, without having to say too much. The success of SekeRob's graphical updates showed how important and useful such communication could be for the members. We can think about some dashboards for informing about the progress of the project pre-release activities, about the operational troubles and progress, and finally about the assessment phase of the results by the scientists. I am still believing that we do a useful job with our contribution and participation to WCG. Nevertheless, I can easily imagine that less convinced people do not interpret in a positive way the lack of feedback after project completion. I can imagine that some people have the feeling that, finally, our contributions are not really useful and since scientists are not able to provide accurate feedback about the use of our computational contributions, those were useless. Since I worked for companies performing research and development for life science, I know very well how long the way is from the basic research to a final product over every late research and development steps. It takes usually years, sometime decades, between the beginning of a project and the final successful result. However, like in the industry, there are some milestones to achieve for deciding if an initial research project remains interesting and valuable or if it is necessary to stop spending time and money on it. Not being successful on a scientific level is not dramatic, but the contributors need to know about it. Being able to recognise that some research / investigations do not conduct to a successful product is important and valuable because it will avoid that other researchers will waste their time and resources with this approach. I believe that the support WCG (members) provides to the scientist is crucial for the future. But it is important too to maintain a living and meaningful communication. Good luck, Yves |
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cjslman
Master Cruncher Mexico Joined: Nov 23, 2004 Post Count: 2082 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I think that the main take away from these posts is that there is feeling of lack of communication or there is a need for improvement in the communication.
----------------------------------------Getting back to -Helle- who seems very upset... IBM is huge and I assume everyone is busy. Can you talk on behalf of WCG? No, I cannot talk on behalf of WCG... I'm just a cruncher like the rest of us.KerSamson wrote: I can remember that, many years ago, some people mentioned the necessity for WCG to involve some contributor/member representatives in order to avoid a kind of autism from "WCG management and staff" to the members. This sounds like an WCG ambassador for the forums. Sounds interesting.CJSL Crunching for a better world... |
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jonnieb-uk
Ace Cruncher England Joined: Nov 30, 2011 Post Count: 6105 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Two thoughtful and considered posts from KodeX and KerSamson
----------------------------------------![]() The suggestions
merit detailed consideration. But I expect the immediate response, if there was one, would be along the lines of "we're doing the best with what we've got". Is the problem therefore that WCG is under-resourced for undertaking the development work that is needed for future growth as it approaches its' 2nd decade? If, as I believe, the answer is "YES", then it is to IBM we should be addressing our concerns. Maybe somebody "in the know" can provide the name and contact details of the person at IBM responsible for oversight of WCG? Members with an interest in the future of WCG and its further development could then address their concerns to person responsible for allocating resources to WCG. |
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