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Sekerob
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

A link v.v. the Swedish lake acidification. http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/Resources/Teaching_Packs/Key_Stage_4/Acid_Rain/04.html They have seen this coming for decades and prepped themselves to living an environmental friendlier lifestyle. They did not go bankrupt, in fact they do very well. The world was not made for what we've been doing to it in 200 years what took hundreds of millions of years to evolve and have a fairly steady state of ~280 ppmv CO2 for at least the last 5 interglacial periods at that level to which all that lives adjusted.
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[Oct 20, 2009 12:26:08 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
retsof
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

and your CO2 amounts to 0.0387% of the atmosphere

Let's call the average .0388% now, and the next peak should be about .0392% with the average .0389% at that time. It's going up by 2 parts per million per year.

I want to convert that tiny number that the denyers jump on into a large number. The mass of the atmosphere is about 5 x 10^15 metric tonnes. That's 10,000,000,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide for each .0001%, and it is increasing by twice that number each year, distributed over the entire earth, currently 3,880,000,000,000 tonnes of just this one greenhouse gas. As the carbon dioxide percentage increases, where does it come from? The percentage of oxygen is reduced by a tiny amount, mostly from combustion, but we don't notice the drop in oxygen since it is approximately 21% of the air. The amount of water vapor that the atmosphere can hold is relatively constant, so the extra water from combustion of dug up fossil fuels ends up adding to the ocean.

The slope of the change has also obviously increased over each 10-20 year span or so, confirming an ever increasing rate of change. In the 1960s it was only increasing by 0.5 ppm per year, and 1980s by 1 ppm per year.

We have not had a real summer for 3 years running. I'm all for a tropical Minnesota.
Those are regional weather differences. South Texas has been in an extreme drought exceeding that of the 1950s and creeping up on the 1930s. The lake level of the nearby reservoir is 35 feet below average. We're getting ready to turn off the tap for downstream rice farms. Central Texas had 68 days of 100 degrees F or more this summer. The average is 12 days over the whole summer, and it used to be 11. On the other hand, the increasing El Nino may give us some rain.

Plants can absorb some yes but not enough to keep up with this.
I suppose they would absorb more if we weren't cutting them down faster than they are being added.

from Global Disaster Watch:

HEAVY SNOW / EXTREME COLD -
RECORD-BREAKING early snowfall in New York, New Jersey - An autumn storm brought snow to parts of Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey, the EARLIEST SNOW ON RECORD in some towns used to harsh winters. The snow that started Thursday, October 15, set records for the earliest date with an inch of snow in Binghamton, Ithaca and Olean in New York and Altoona and State College in Pennsylvania.

EXTREME HEAT / WILDFIRES / DROUGHT / CLIMATE CHANGE-

AUSTRALIA - Children traumatised by Victoria's Black Saturday bushfires are experiencing a fresh wave of fear as predictions spread of another horror fire season. Children were already becoming frightened as the bushfire season drew closer. Children affected by the February 7 inferno, which killed 173 people, or those living in high bushfire risk areas, have been exposed to media reports that the upcoming season could be worse than the last.

Britain's Prime Minister warns of climate 'catastrophe' - The UK faces a "catastrophe" of floods, droughts and killer heatwaves if world leaders fail to agree a deal on climate change. World delegations meet in Copenhagen in December for talks on a new treaty. In recent days there have been a number of warnings that progress is stalling. The prime minister has warned that negotiators have 50 days to save the world from global warming and break the "impasse". He told the Major Economies Forum in London, which brings together 17 of the world's biggest greenhouse gas-emitting countries, there was "no plan B". "Once the damage from unchecked emissions growth is done, no retrospective global agreement, in some future period, can undo that choice." The costs of failing to tackle the issue would be greater than the impact of both world wars and the Great Depression combined, the prime minister said. Whether current scientific understanding warrants his warning of "catastrophe" for the UK if greenhouse gas levels rise unchecked is perhaps open to question. A recent report by Kofi Annan's Global Humanitarian Forum found the UK was one of 12 nations least likely to be affected by climate impacts.
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[Edit 20 times, last edit by retsof at Oct 20, 2009 9:14:14 PM]
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mikey
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Plants can absorb some yes but not enough to keep up with this.
I suppose they would absorb more if we weren't cutting them down faster than they are being added.


The City of Chicago Illinois, USA sent their Arborist out and with some money changed the roof of City Hall into a green oasis and in the process saved 10 to 15 PERCENT on their heating and cooling costs per year! They said that if every building that could, some are just designed too steeply etc, would green their own roofs downtown Chicago would be up to 5 degree F cooler in the hottest days of summer! In addition to cleaning up the air pollution, to some degree. They essentially put a large group of container plantings on the roof of City Hall and thru water management, etc now have a self sustaining eco-system on the roof.
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Sekerob
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

There are many discussions on sequestering CO2 the natural way. Read up on the Biochar solution. A quick link to a wiki on the topic of biochar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochar and a dedicated website: http://www.biochar.org/joomla/

Yes, and lucky us again us silly (read stupid if you will) humans, we cut down the forests to create agricultural land which has a higher albedo... some will claim this was by higher design.

Question: Is it still that North Americans dump their food-waste into the kitchen sink processor and flush it out their sewers? Never understood that for a second. Substantially this method also uses allot more water and that's getting more scarce.
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[Oct 21, 2009 10:59:27 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

This morning, but for a brief moment between the summer minimum and yesterday, the 2009 sea ice extent is back to 570,000 km square lower than 2008 and 479,000 km square from 2005, the nearest better year than 2008. JAXA knows best, they say. Two more frequently used charts depicting comparison to more extended mean data: Nansen Arctic Roos. Nicely shows the factor of deviation from past 30 years normal, whilst the short is not tracking the willing for recovery.





Not a little feat... it requires a global majority to help willing turn the tide. Wish we could collective get over the conspiracy differences some perceive with the Bilderbergs, Free Masons and the Illuminati, for a better world.
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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

It's not propaganda

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8317998.stm

...but it is

;-)

Let's see if the watchdog has teeth or if they get extracted by the time they report

Dave
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retsof
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

I'll post the last thought:

Energy and Climate Change Minister Joan Ruddock last week defended the approach taken in the advertisement.

She said: "The Department of Energy and Climate Change stands by the messages in the television ad, and the creative approach.

"The ad is directed at adults, but we know that the proposition to 'protect the next generation' is a motivating one.

"Climate change is not just a problem for generations of people far in the future, it is happening now, it affects us and our children, and we owe it to them to take action now to prevent its worst effects."
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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Yep have to admit it's good propaganda because indeed it does pull on the heartstrings

but unfortunately retsof there isn't a Climate Catastrophe in the making and if the climate is changing, as it does constantly, the change is not down to our emissions of CO2.


Want some more propaganda courtesy of Her Majesty's Government and the UK Met Office

Get a belly full of this from the UK's Department of Energy and Climate Change (Oh the irony)

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2009/pr20091022.html

http://www.actoncopenhagen.decc.gov.uk/conten...4-degrees-large-map-final

Enjoy

All the doom mongerers can go into meltdown over it

While the rest of us can stand back and see it for what it is


Take care all and have a nice (pretty typical weather for the time of year) day


Dave
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by David Autumns at Oct 23, 2009 1:30:00 PM]
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Sekerob
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

iCoal 2.0... New name, old product: http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=3319

Coal, responsible for black sooth, poisons, heavy metals, nuclear fallout, GHG's and an estimated few hundred thousands mortalities annually, silently, because it's so normal and most often, kills slowly. What about those hill and mountain tops that go missing... oh sorry Not In Your Back Yard.
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retsof
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Yep have to admit it's good propaganda because indeed it does pull on the heartstrings

but unfortunately retsof there isn't a Climate Catastrophe in the making and if the climate is changing, as it does constantly, the change is not down to our emissions of CO2.


Merely saying it isn't so hardly makes it not so.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26251600-20261,00.html

Now climate change denial is a psychological condition

October 24, 2009, The Australian (a very up-to-date article from the future, since they are ahead of me and it is only October 23 here.)

Greens candidate Clive Hamilton and Tim Kasser in a paper to the 4 Degrees & Beyond confab in Oxford last month

THE most prominent form of denial is displayed by climate sceptics who reject all or most of the main propositions established by climate science. It seems for many such individuals acceptance of climate science and the response it calls for conflict with their fundamental beliefs, namely that it is natural for humans to exploit the Earth's resources, that economic growth should not be disrupted (and) that governments should not intervene in the marketplace.

For such sceptics the idea of human-induced global warming can give rise to cognitive dissonance, the uncomfortable feeling people have when they begin to understand that something they believe to be true is contradicted by evidence. Rejection of the scientific claims resolves the dissonance and thus removes the unpleasant feeling.




Here is another last wrap up thought from your own reference.

Vicky Pope, Head of Climate Change Advice at the Met Office, said: “If emissions continue at the current rate the global average temperature are likely to rise by 4 °C by the end of this century or even substantially earlier. The science tells us that this will have severe and widespread impacts in all parts of the world, so we need to take action now to reduce emissions to avoid water and food shortages in the future.”

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