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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Here's another great idea from another Government
----------------------------------------http://www.theaustralian.com.au/media/media-f...ry-e6frg996-1226287844862 "The council would scrutinise online news sites that get more than 15,000 hits a year, clearing the way for government-funded action against amateur website operators who comment on news and current affairs." Big Brother working the Ministry of Truth in a free and liberal society like Australia - it's a preposterous suggestion . (just checking that people who know me, know that for great idea I mean bad idea through the nuance of sarcasm - every now and again this is worth repeating ... unfortunately)![]() |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Gerald despite everything I cannot countenance that the destruction of WTC Buildings 1 2 and 7 and part of the Pentagon was an inside job.
----------------------------------------I am with you on the greatest scam perpetuated on the Human Race based on 0.039302% CO2, but not 9/11. We can talk about how such tall buildings landed in their own footprint till the cows come home but unfortunately for the conspiracy theorist that was down to their design. Their strength was in their steel outer walls which, as the buildings fell, peeled open like an eggshell containing the debris You can see here one of the buildings being built The real reason. For a great many and varied reasons - some in ancient history - some religious extremists believed that it was worth sacrificing their lives and the lives of many innocent people in the Buildings and Planes by hijacking and flying 2 passenger jet planes into the WTC buildings with another into the Pentagon and a 4th hijacked passenger plane being downed before reaching it's intended target. If you slice through a quarter mile high building 1/3 of the way from the top, weaken the structure beneath it though physical impact and fire, eventually the weight of the building above produced the horror, seared now into the collective mind, that we witnessed on the 11th September 2001. What we have to come to terms with is that it happened. Understand what would drive someone to carry that through. As One Mankind strive to rise above our, clearly there for all to see, barbaric nature. Only then... ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by David Autumns at Mar 3, 2012 8:37:33 PM] |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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A couple of graphs that won't make great reading for a Nobel Peace Prize Winner claiming it would all be gone in as soon as Summer 2014
----------------------------------------http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite..._images/ssmi_ice_area.png http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite...n_images/ssmi_ice_ext.png note both graphs lowest reference starts at 2 million sq kms See that Red 2012 line ![]() With the wind direction compacting the sea ice and the cold, usually, contained within the polar region this winter I don't expect a repeat of 2007 any time soon Dave ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by David Autumns at Mar 3, 2012 9:09:51 PM] |
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toss
Senior Cruncher New Zealand Joined: Jan 3, 2007 Post Count: 220 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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We can talk about how such tall buildings landed in their own footprint till the cows come home but unfortunately for the conspiracy theorist that was down to their design. Their strength was in their steel outer walls which, as the buildings fell, peeled open like an eggshell containing the debris David there are many hundreds of professional Engineers and Architects who have analysed the known evidence and completely disagree with your contentions. I don't know if it was an inside job, but I'm convinced that what the world has been told officially is wrong. Neither office fires nor jet fuel can melt structural steel, yet molten steel was involved. Very curious indeed. Perhaps you might explain how the very credible experts in the following short video are wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw Cheers |
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nanoprobe
Master Cruncher Classified Joined: Aug 29, 2008 Post Count: 2998 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I don't know if it was an inside job, but I'm convinced that what the world has been told officially is wrong. Neither office fires nor jet fuel can melt structural steel, yet molten steel was involved. Very curious indeed. A difference of opinion. Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering professor and the Trade Center's construction manager [sic], speculated that flames fuelled by thousands of litres of aviation fuel melted steel supports. "This building would have stood had a plane or a force caused by a plane smashed into it," he said. "But steel melts, and 90,850 litres of aviation fluid melted the steel. Nothing is designed or will be designed to withstand that fire." . [Professor of Structural Engineering at the University of Newcastle, John Knapton] told BBC News Online: "The world trade centre was designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707, but that was unusual... we are trying to discover why they [ the towers ] collapsed and what needs doing to rebuild them." "The buildings survived the impact and the explosion but not the fire, and that is the problem." "The 35 tonnes of aviation fuel will have melted the steel... all that can be done is to place fire resistant material around the steel and delay the collapse by keeping the steel cool for longer.
In 1969 I took an oath to defend and protect the U S Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and Domestic. There was no expiration date.
----------------------------------------![]() ![]() [Edit 2 times, last edit by nanoprobe at Mar 4, 2012 1:48:42 AM] |
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toss
Senior Cruncher New Zealand Joined: Jan 3, 2007 Post Count: 220 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Nano
Never mind opinions - let's consider the facts Jet fuel has an open air burning temperature of 260-315 degC The lowest temperature at which a plain carbon steel can begin to melt is 1130 degC There is simply no doubt that burning jet fuel will not melt steel. That is a scientific fact - not any opinion. |
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nanoprobe
Master Cruncher Classified Joined: Aug 29, 2008 Post Count: 2998 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Nano Never mind opinions - let's consider the facts Jet fuel has an open air burning temperature of 260-315 degC The lowest temperature at which a plain carbon steel can begin to melt is 1130 degC There is simply no doubt that burning jet fuel will not melt steel. That is a scientific fact - not any opinion. The problem isn't one of pure temperature, it is one of HEAT CAPACITY and THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY. Heat capacity (usually denoted by a capital C, often with subscripts) is a measurable physical quantity that characterizes the ability of a body to store heat as it changes in temperature. It is defined as the rate of change of temperature as heat is added to a body at the given conditions and state of the body (foremost its temperature). In the International System of Units, heat capacity is expressed in units of joules per kelvin. It is termed an "extensive quantity" because it is sensitive to the size of the object (for example, a bathtub of water has a greater heat capacity than a cup of water). Dividing heat capacity by the body's mass yields a specific heat capacity (also called more properly "mass-specific heat capacity" or more loosely "specific heat"), which is an "intensive quantity," meaning it is no longer dependent on amount of material, and is now more dependent on the type of material, as well as the physical conditions of heating." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capaci… "In physics, thermal conductivity, k, is the intensive property of a material that indicates its ability to conduct heat. It is defined as the quantity of heat, Q, transmitted in time t through a thickness L, in a direction normal to a surface of area A, due to a temperature difference ΔT, under steady state conditions and when the heat transfer is dependent only on the temperature gradient. Thermal conductivity = heat flow rate × distance / (area × temperature difference) " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_conductivity So, the problem here is not strictly one of temperature, but how much heat was being pumped into the steel, versus how quickly it could conduct that heat to other areas to cool itself down. If the steel conducts heat away from the fire faster than it is being pumped into the steel, the steel remains rigid. If heat is pumped into the steel faster than it can be conducted away, the temperature of the steel RISES ABOVE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE FIRE, eventually reaching the plastic deformation (softening) temperature. At that point, the steel girders deform, and the rest is purely momemtum (mass times velocity) And those are the scientific facts.
In 1969 I took an oath to defend and protect the U S Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and Domestic. There was no expiration date.
----------------------------------------![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by nanoprobe at Mar 4, 2012 4:44:56 AM] |
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toss
Senior Cruncher New Zealand Joined: Jan 3, 2007 Post Count: 220 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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RISES ABOVE THE TEMPERATURE OF THE FIRE, eventually reaching the plastic deformation (softening) temperature. At that point, the steel girders deform, and the rest is purely momemtum (mass times velocity) Scientific certainly, but there is no evidence such a theory applied to WTC. Indeed it was not indicated in the NIST Report which officially defined the collapse mechanism. I'll place my confidence with the hundreds of engineers, architects & scientists who have studied the known evidence and provided proper analysis using the scientific method that demonstrates fires could not have collapsed the 3 towers. Given that some of those eminent specialists have published peer reviewed papers of their findings, and those papers remain unchallenged, seems to me that they should be listened to. I also note your promulgated theory refers only to steel deformation but doesn't address the molten steel evident at the site to which I referred earlier. As I stated, there is no way jet fuel burning in air can melt steel - and that is still a fact. Cheers |
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GeraldRube
Master Cruncher United States Joined: Nov 20, 2004 Post Count: 2153 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Gerald despite everything I cannot countenance that the destruction of WTC Buildings 1 2 and 7 and part of the Pentagon was an inside job. I am with you on the greatest scam perpetuated on the Human Race based on 0.039302% CO2, but not 9/11. We can talk about how such tall buildings landed in their own footprint till the cows come home but unfortunately for the conspiracy theorist that was down to their design. Their strength was in their steel outer walls which, as the buildings fell, peeled open like an eggshell containing the debris You can see here one of the buildings being built The real reason. For a great many and varied reasons - some in ancient history - some religious extremists believed that it was worth sacrificing their lives and the lives of many innocent people in the Buildings and Planes by hijacking and flying 2 passenger jet planes into the WTC buildings with another into the Pentagon and a 4th hijacked passenger plane being downed before reaching it's intended target. If you slice through a quarter mile high building 1/3 of the way from the top, weaken the structure beneath it though physical impact and fire, eventually the weight of the building above produced the horror, seared now into the collective mind, that we witnessed on the 11th September 2001. What we have to come to terms with is that it happened. Understand what would drive someone to carry that through. As One Mankind strive to rise above our, clearly there for all to see, barbaric nature. Only then... I am not saying i agree with it but i wouldn't put anything past what the govt. does--I don't trust any of our leaders in govt now--democrats or republicans-- |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Good thing those first blacksmiths didn't know they couldn't melt iron and steel by burning wood and coal...charcoal and coke.
Wonder how much wind you get that high above the ground? Wonder what role the stack effect played given building design and the damage patterns? |
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