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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support
Forum: Website Support
Thread: Points credited to not equal actual points given - wcg math error |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 56
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
You're very welcome to stay of course, but can't change what is correct to be perfect to the 6th decimal. Beautiful turn of phrase. You cannot compare the points on the WCG Statistics page to Boincstats. You can't. Why? For the same reason that you cannot mate a wildebeest and a stapler. No matter that you might have valid reasons to do so, you can't. [Edit} Of course you can compare the two as long as you realize that you will never get the two numbers to be the same. I am also wrong about the wildebeest and the stapler, unless you are trying to perpetuate the species. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Feb 26, 2009 5:23:52 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Scribe again has more useless info...
I think he likes being acknowledged thats why I'm responding to him... To 'make his day'  As for where I got the other numbers I got them from the client... If you didn't know it showed numbers like the numbers I've posted... ...look at your own client.... obvioulsy open it. click statistics tab click either all projects(sum) or/and the same values show (on my client) One project... carefully Line cursor up with a dot and click... . Doing this displays the numbers I have shown on the days shown. . I know you can't do that on my client, but you can see the numbers on yours... . I only found this 'problem' by comparing these numbers with what the site said... PLEASE look at the difference between each day on yours... is it equal to what the stats on the site said for that day. If your's is correct great, I'm happy for you. MINE DO NOT MATCH as I have stated, here they are for several days ...... Total points.......awarded points. 2/19 52784.51 .. 2/19 1,205 (awarded) 2/20 52831.43 .. 2/20 1,251 2/21 52893.98 .. 2/21 497 2/22 53128.58 .. 2/22 460 I know the click on the graph is very 'touchy' and I could be off of the dot a 'little' but not by the difference in the numbers... (I used the magnifier to get it as close to the dot as possible) . To do the math I rounded off and tried adjusting +/- for click error, still I couldn't come up with the 'same' math for each day. . Why does the graph (or work done on the project page) has decimal positions in the number when the site SHOWS all the points are awarded in whole numbers.... .. Uh Oh.. this BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, the numbers should not have a decimal place at all. Doesn't this alone show there is something amiss? . Does your client show xxx.xx or a whole number xxxxx for your work done total? If it has a decimal like xxx.xx does the position after the decimal change daily? If it does (like mine) HOW is this possible when honestly dealing with whole numbers? to answer the expected reply from scribe 'total up all work done it will be a whole number'.... Sorry, the total of all work done does not equal a whole number on mine...  If it did it would be LESS proof of A REAL problem with the points... The fact there are anything but whole numbers on the total shows there is some undisclosed and changing math being done regarding points. . |
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knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech Joined: Nov 8, 2004 Post Count: 4504 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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SolarPowered,
Are you by any chance looking at the graphs on the client for average credit? The average shown there is a decaying average that falls by a factor of half every 2 weeks. It is much susceptible to jumping around based on one day jumps in credit. thanks, Kevin |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Just explained where I got the numbers and its not the average....
...(Sekerob) as for the history of my usage and if I used it before Boinc.. WHO CARES, as I have previously posted..... I'm sorry I brought up OLD points, ignore that. As, I know about the points I earned before Boinc and THOSE (old points) DO NOT HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE POINTS EARNED ON THE DATES I JUST POSTED. . JUST LOOK AT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE LAST FEW DAYS, You don't have to go to the past to see the difference in today's numbers! . I AM ALSO AWARE no other user can see my client. So you have to look at your own client to see what I am referring to. If your numbers add up mathmatically for you GREAT! Mine DO NOT and are NOT 7to1 I compare the points I was awarded on the site with the number of points I see-get on my client. NOTHING ELSE, NO OLD POINTS, NO FUTURE, NO SPECIAL MATH! JUST SIMPLE COMPARING of points earned daily and what actually was awarded daily to the client.... I'll repeat for some who don't understand... NOTHING ELSE no points from last month, year or before the 'new client', just the last few days. . I was awarded xxx points but the client shows xx... a deduction which value changes DAILY by some undisclosed calculation. . Again I say, the points awarded should equal the number of points awarded to the 'client'. NOTE THE WORD CLIENT above, this is not the WEB SITEs total! . If they want to adjust the points 7to1 it should remain 7to1 on every data unit, and they should post that info on the PHP. |
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bieberj
Senior Cruncher United States Joined: Dec 2, 2004 Post Count: 406 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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SolarPowered,
I think we are all trying to understand what you are trying to compare with. I might have hit what you are talking about - correct me if I am wrong. I gathered my points from the last 7 days (from BOINCStats) 2/20: 294 *7 = 2058 2/21: 495 *7 = 3465 2/22: 318 *7 = 2226 2/23: 453 *7 = 3171 2/24: 417 *7 = 2919 2/25: 322 *7 = 2254 2/26: 381 *7 = 2667 I looked at the points generated graph shown on the "My Statistics" page and it doesn't seem to be showing the numbers. Instead, I see (to my best guess) the following starting with 2/20. 1700, 4000, 2800, 3800, 2500, 2200, 1800 I agree that they don't match. I suspect it is because BOINC's 24 hours period is different than WCG's 24 hours period. One thing I did do is to add the 7 numbers for the week that I was awarded which is 18760 points versus the 7 days on the chart which is 18800 so the two figures are close. Is this how you did your math? If not, where are your numbers coming from? |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
The Client pulls the latest BOINC cumulative count for validated work every time it talks to the servers. If it does e.g. say at 13:00 UTC +/ - time offset of client's location and it wont do it again until the next day, WCG and Client can't possibly agree. It's only when you hit "update" at 00:00:01 UTC when there is a single moment of agreement. Jot the value down and compare with WCG stats... and be careful, because between 00:00 and actual Stats completion there is spill added into the My Grid page you only see when looking at the historic daily stats. The validators just continue on during the stats run and adds the spill into the cumulative though for daily reporting all validated after 00:00 goes to the new day. Because the client counts 24 hour stats per local time as you suspected, more spanners in wheel are introduced to make the recon rather laborious. Take my advise: It's a waste of time. Number's tally. WCG has a 100% record. Hope I did not confused you thoroughly ;>) cheers
WCG
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 2 times, last edit by Sekerob at Feb 26, 2009 7:40:33 PM] |
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JmBoullier
Former Community Advisor Normandy - France Joined: Jan 26, 2007 Post Count: 3716 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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SolarPowered,
----------------------------------------Why haven't you said it from the beginning?!  This method looks fine: with magnifying the graph big enough it is even possible to crosshair a daily point to the second decimal. For me that means 8 significant digits, which seems very accurate. Unfortunately each daily point in this graph is the highest total that Boinc got from the server on this day, not the highest recorded in the server for this day. Therefore if a client does not contact the server very often (i.e. does not fetch work very often) it may have recorded an end-of-day value which is much lower than it actually was in the website. This is what explains that you compute very good days which are much more than what the client is able to do in a day, following or preceding a very low day since there is no miracle in this matter. Below is what I have found in one of my Windows clients which is not running 24/7 (the rest of the time it runs under Linux as a different device). Statistics Date/Client end of day/Delta previous day/Delta previous day/Points Generated/Difference/Ratio WCG See the very low numbers for Feb 14 where this client has been stopped soon after midnight for the rest of the day. Since this machine has run under Linux for the rest of the time the daily total for WCG is about the same as the other days, hence the very high ratio WCG / Boinc for that day. But on the total period this ratio is close to 7 as expected. The bottom line is: unless you force a client update every day about 23:59:55 UTC your chance to closely match the website and the client numbers are very low. That's why, when we feel the need to check that everything is allright, we have to do it on a long enough number of days. I hope this is closing this topic, at last. Jean. |
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knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech Joined: Nov 8, 2004 Post Count: 4504 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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You can get the data points used for the graphs in the file called statistics_www.worldcommunitygrid.org.xml
It is in either C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\BOINC or C:\Program Files\BOINC |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I checked back over all the information given to SolarPowered by all the Community Advisors. All the advice and explanations are correct.
SolarPowered, if you are still having problems, I suggest that instead of writing another long reply, you spend the time reading through our past replies. I note that you didn't follow our advice and check your Device Statistics page. For your convenience, I will repeat the link: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/ms/device/v...dSince=0&lastResult=0 If you expect the numbers just to match exactly in your client and the total on the website, then I'm sorry - they don't. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
bieberj You're close..
heres mine again... ...... Total points.....total awarded ..shown on client....points as shown on wcg site. 2/19 52784.51 ..... 2/19 1,205 (awarded) 2/20 52831.43 ..... 2/20 1,251 2/21 52893.98 ..... 2/21 497 2/22 53128.58 ..... 2/22 460 4 days=344.07 4 days=3143 2/19 52784.51+1205 should = 53989.51 without /7 .... since they appear to /7 they should post it... So I recalcualte with (1205/7=172.14) 2/19 52784.51+172.14 should = 52959.65 for 2/20 On this one day I'm off by 128.22 ( 52959.65-52831.43) Take difference from 19th-22nd=344.07 4 days=3143/7=449.0 For a difference of -104.93 from the 7 to 1 calcuation, IF the points awarded on 2/22 are used if not then 3 days=2683/7=383.28 which is closer (-39.21).... but still not right on, and I think the 22nd is to be included because of the time I got the stats. . and your numbers are slightly off too.... so, I'm not completly messed up . That is what I mean by accuracy.... Shouldn't they be identical or 'match' the value of a data unit or 2... . I couldn't find a 'match' for (39.21*7=274.47) on my data units. During the above period I compared data units and none had identical (247.47) points or even within 10 points of it. . I think the loss is cummulative by taking my total points (shown on client 53621) and multiplying by 7*53621=375347. Which isn't close to 680174 shown on the wcg's site... Shouldn't the difference between my client and WCG's stats remain about 7to1 continually? I have a 304827 point spread using that 7-1 calcuation but over time that spread is getting smaller. . It appears that because of older data units my stats are 'different' than 7to1 and wcg is slowly bleeding off points to make up the difference, since apparently the first data units were awarded at full value... . I know the total contains points before boinc and those may not have been calculated the same.... I'm trying to take that into account.... if I only knew how many points I got before before Boinc.. maybe that would clear it up. . P.S. my registration date is when I switched to Boinc it's NOT when I signed up with the previous client which was transferred over.. confusing the points and dates even more... . |
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