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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Community
Forum: Chat Room
Thread: WCG web site clinic |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 95
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Thanks Sekeob for the support it's appreciated
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Surely this Project is going to get the Tripple D signature...( Done Dis Dogether  It really is coming along nicely. There is a lot of work going on behind the scenes at WCGwiki. Sek, I've been wondering how we can make it easy for translators such as you and depreins to translate pages for us. I would also like to make it easy to insert translated pages into the website. A little planning now will make it easier when we are ready to start translating (and that won't be long, I think). I was wondering if you're familiar with HTML? Would you be able to take an HTML document and translate it to another language without messing up the HTML in the document? Or would you need a plain English (no HTML) document to work with. Sorry if this is a silly question but I have no idea how much you know about HTML. Depreins, how about you? |
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depriens
Senior Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Jul 29, 2005 Post Count: 350 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Well, for some reason my very good ISP has let me down, because I'm unable to reach www.wcgwiki.org
----------------------------------------For me it would be easier to translate the document in plain text. I'm pretty confident I can translate HTML without messing it up, but I'm not 100% sure. So plain text would be my choice. But if Sekerob want to translate it (he can write Dutch as well) it's fine by me. I'm definately willing to do it, but I'm pretty busy, so it could take a while before it's finished. If this is no problem, I can start translating as soon as the final English version is ready. Perhaps it would be handy to give each page a revision no. so you are able to see if every translation is still "in sync" with the original English document.   [Edit 1 times, last edit by depriens at Jul 17, 2006 5:28:03 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Yes, a revision no. for each page will be very important. I will add revision numbers to all English versions before we start translating.
----------------------------------------We can provide plain English pages for translators if necessary but that would require us to remove all the HTML and later put it back into the translated page. That would be a fair bit of work and prone to error because we cannot read the translation. Translators can read both versions. HTML is fairly simple. It is a markup language not a programming languge. I think with a few hints and a little help with the first 2 pages almost anybody could translate an HTML page. I will write a short page for the website that explains just enough about HTML to allow a translator to do his work easily. I think you will be surprised how simple HTML is. And if you make a few mistakes and delete some HTML "codes" it will be easy to fix even for English speakers. After 2 attempts you will think it is child's play. I am not sure but I think Sekerob speaks several languages. He even talks Cowboy pretty good. I would like to use Sekerob for Spanish, Italian, Russian, Inuktituk, Bulgarian, Japanese, Chinese, German and possiblly French too, if he has time.  But work and family come first for everybody. We can wait. We can also use Babelfish too and then have translators check and correct the Babelfish version, that might save a lot of work.At this point I do not recommend translators prepare by finding and installing a fancy HTML editor. Some HTML editors will want to change the HTML and that may lead to problems. A simple text editor like Windows Notepad will do the job. PS: Actually, if you follow 2 simple rules very carefully you can probably translate 90% of most web pages successfully. The rules are:
With those 2 rules and 10 minutes experimenting you can probably learn all you need to know. Also, Windows Notepad will work but Programmer's Notepad available here will make things much easier by highlighting the HTML tags in a different color than the text. You can change the text but not the tags. Then it's just a matter of following the colors. Programmer's Notepad is freeware and a very verastile editor. Wordpad should not be used for editing HTML, btw. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jul 17, 2006 9:53:22 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
My recommendation for versioning would be major.minor for the original page, and major.minor.translation for translated pages.
So, the initial original page will be 1.0, and minor changes to this will be 1.1, 1.2 etc. If the page is rewritten entirely, it will go to 2.0. Translated pages will use the major.minor of the original, with an additional translation version in case the translation is amended without the underlying text changing. Dagorath, your summary is good, but doesn't allow for attribute text that needs altering, and some of the complexities of character entities. So, I'm going to offer to check the html before uploading for any translator who wants. Maybe we'll be able to add a translation feature so the whole process can be done from the website. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
My recommendation for versioning would be major.minor for the original page, and major.minor.translation for translated pages. So, the initial original page will be 1.0, and minor changes to this will be 1.1, 1.2 etc. If the page is rewritten entirely, it will go to 2.0. Translated pages will use the major.minor of the original, with an additional translation version in case the translation is amended without the underlying text changing. I vote we adopt Didactylos's recommendation and I offer a concrete example that could define our standard if we accept it. <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="CONTENT-TYPE" CONTENT="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <TITLE>HTML for Translators</TITLE> <META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="OpenOffice.org 2.0 (Linux)"> <META NAME="CREATED" CONTENT="20060717;13012600"> <META NAME="CHANGED" CONTENT="20060717;15251800"> <meta name="original_author" content="Giovanni Dellalonga"> <meta name="original_language" content="Italian"> <meta name="original_language_version" content="1.1"> <meta name="translation_language" content="English"> <meta name="translation_version" content="1.1.4"> <meta name="translator" content="Joe Blow"> </HEAD> My example shows a document originally in Italian. The original is at version 1.1. It has been translated to English by Joe Blow, translation version is 1.1.4 which indicates it is Joes's 4th translation of original 1.1. I'm not sure if this scheme is exactly the versioning scheme Didactylos had in mind but it's close. Anyone care to amend it? The uppercase tags are generated by my HTML editor and are not part of my proposal but are included here for discussion too. I think editor generated META tags are irrelevant to our discussion because there doesn't seem to be any standard for them that we could rely on but maybe not, I dunno. Dagorath, your summary is good, but doesn't allow for attribute text that needs altering, and some of the complexities of character entities. So, I'm going to offer to check the html before uploading for any translator who wants. Maybe we'll be able to add a translation feature so the whole process can be done from the website. Indeed, some attribute text will need altering and character entities will need special attention too. I've been thinking if we could just get translators to take care of text betweeen the > < tag delimeters that would get 90% of the job done. Others more proficient in HTML could take care of the rest. We could have a page that offers simple tips on HTML for translators plus a form with a nice big edit box into which they can cut and paste their translation. In fact if a page has already been translated, by Babelfish for example, a translator could cut and paste the Bablefish translation into the edit box, fix a few words then click the button to email to Didactylos for a final check. We might have other inputs on that page for translator contact info, comments/ideas, etc. We could have a link at the bottom of each original document that would plonk the page into an edit box or email it to a translator. I can write a simple translator feature that will do the job and get us going if nobody else has time. I'm already reviewing Javascript for the job. We also have lots of time to discuss other ideas for a translation feature. I was also thinking that if certain pages were built on the fly with server side scripts/exes then it should be possible to use 1 set of links for all languages and just insert appropriate text in the appropriate language into the 1 "structure". Am I nuts? Is it doable? Would it make the task easier or harder? I am thinking we might then provide translators with plain English documents to translate rather than HTML documents. [Edit 3 times, last edit by Former Member at Jul 18, 2006 3:46:44 PM] |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
From the rip and pilfer department, here a link to an excellent Q&A at Rosetta. There are a few items there candidating for insertion into the Forum feature wishlist thread too......
----------------------------------------http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_threa...54&sort=timestamp_asc
WCG
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
Dave,
----------------------------------------Not sure if to post in the "Spread the Word" thread or this one, but it's about the WCGWIKI and presentation, here a sample of how it looks using latest web page rendering techniques:  Forget the blacked out areas, not wanting to share those leads ;>), this is a Firefox screen shot, BON Echo 2.0 RC1, screaming in speed and faithfulness to standards. As u can see, with some tweaks, the page design ,left hand top of web page, is now included in the tabs.....did u know (of course Didactylos did  ). It is important, for some websites use horrible dark teintes, thus turning the tabs into ....well the blacked out area hue. The active tab font colour is set to corporate blue....(the boys at IBM will like that).BTW, IE7 programmers can only dream, which is the real reason these MSFT crufters have invited the Mozilla developers over to "help" make sure that Vista is compatible. This is where the action of an OS takes place as the web-browser will be the de-facto interface for doing any type of work....soon office apps not needed, back to centralised app storage and personal prefs storage. ciao
WCG
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Aug 24, 2006 8:38:43 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The W3C standard does not specify anything about tabs, and frankly I think it's a stupid idea. Tabs should be rendered using the normal shell tab style. In my opinion, this is a bug and should be fixed before it is released.
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
The concept of different persons, different flavours, absent in some.....
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WCG
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! |
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