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Category: Support Forum: Suggestions / Feedback Thread: [Solved] WCGrid Cost-Benefit Analysis |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 133
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wcgridmember
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Post Count: 110 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
By the way, my dear US friends, the price of electricity in my country is double the price of electricity in your country, so please show me some compassion. During one year, three computers at full speed will drain my family's wallet around 2/3 (400€) of the national monthly minimum wage (600€)*. Of course, I'm at the default 60% not only because of the money issue, but also the noise issue. Any opportunities for me to relocate are welcome! :-) Idea: let's invest in buying computers that run WCGrid for people who would benefit the most out of them on developing countries where energy is cheapest!
----------------------------------------UPDATE: *Fortunately, we're not in any financial distress and the average income from our household is quite greater than this value [Edit 3 times, last edit by wcgridmember at Jul 20, 2019 12:46:11 AM] |
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KerSamson
Master Cruncher Switzerland Joined: Jan 29, 2007 Post Count: 1670 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Is all research based on brute-force, testing all possible compounds? It is mainly what you call "brute-force". The standard ratio for life-science research work (pharma as well as agro) is 1 to 100'000. I.e in order to be able to have one new molecule, it is necessary to investigate about 100'000 possible candidates. This does not occur at once: - Step 1 - Initial challenge: about 1'000 molecules will be identified as possible candidate. - Step 2 - Second round: about 100 molecules could be "pre-qualified" - Step 3 - Deeper investigation: about 10 molecules will be followed as serious candidate. ... Finally, only 1 or 2 molecules will be definitively selected and developed. Life science research work is time and resource consuming. In-silico research helps to limit the in-vitro effort at least for step 1. Cheers, Yves |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
One more thing. All of the results obtained on WCG are required to be published in the public domain. Therefore it will be available to anyone who may be planning to do additional research. Therefore reducing the need for duplicate effort and expense. Researce time on super computers is a scarce and expensive commodity available to few researchers. Therefore our donation of resources and time provides a much needed resource for research. IBM gets many more requests for use of these resources than can accommodated and therefore they very carefully screen these requests to make the resources available where they can be of the most benefit. The cost/benefit analysis can only be done years in the future.
As for me, I enjoy providing my time and resources to these projects. It gives me a warm/fuzzy feeling that my minute effort may someday lead to a big benefit to society. Whew! |
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aaabaaab
Cruncher Joined: Jul 31, 2016 Post Count: 42 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
By the way, my dear US friends, the price of electricity in my country is double the price of electricity in your country, so please show me some compassion. During one year, three computers at full speed will drain my family's wallet around 2/3 (400€) of the monthly minimum wage (600€). Of course, I'm at the default 60% not only because of the money issue, but also the noise issue. Any opportunities for me to relocate are welcome! :-) Idea: let's invest in buying computers that run WCGrid for people who would benefit the most out of them on developing countries where energy is cheapest! You could use ARM devices to reduce energy consumption. For the devices I use: i7 4790 uses 18.5 Wh to crunch 1 SCC work unit. Odroid XU4 - 6.1Wh. Needs active cooling. Android provided by producer. Raspberry Pi 3 - 8 Wh. Needs active cooling. Android provided by 3rd party. Installation was cumbersome. Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 uses 8Wh per 1 SCC wu. Passive cooling, Android already installed. Wiki smart phone (4x A53): 5.6Wh per 1 SCC wu. Battery removed. Passive cooling, Android already installed. There are also new sbc to consider: - Odroid N2 - 3.6 Wh - this is an estimation assuming that N2 is 15% faster than XU4. Has passive cooling. Android is provided by producer. - Raspberry Pi 4 should use <6Wh per SCC wu - an estimation based on CPU and advertised consumption. Needs active cooling (*) I assumed that the SCC work unit sent to the i7 and the ones received by Arm devices is the same - needs the same computing effort to be crunched. |
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7547 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
By the way, my dear US friends, the price of electricity in my country is double the price of electricity in your country, so please show me some compassion. During one year, three computers at full speed will drain my family's wallet around 2/3 (400€) of the monthly minimum wage (600€). Of course, I'm at the default 60% not only because of the money issue, but also the noise issue. Any opportunities for me to relocate are welcome! :-) Idea: let's invest in buying computers that run WCGrid for people who would benefit the most out of them on developing countries where energy is cheapest! First off, thank you for your efforts. You should only crunch as much as you are comfortable with and can reasonably afford without neglecting all of your other obligations. Nobody expects you to deprive yourself and your family of your normal lifestyle. Whatever you contribute is appreciated. As far as relocating, if it is only the cost of electricity you are considering, some of the cheapest rates are in China, India, Iceland and some of the Persian Gulf states. I think, for most people, the cost of electricity is not one of the factors which is considered when relocating is discussed. However much you crunch, it should never be a burden to you and your family. Cheers
Sgt. Joe
----------------------------------------*Minnesota Crunchers* [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sgt.Joe at Jul 19, 2019 3:44:53 PM] |
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JimWork
Cruncher Canada Joined: Oct 11, 2005 Post Count: 35 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Hello Everyone. We are being trolled and twisted. WCG is about volunteerism, sharing what we can spare for the greater benefit. There is no obligation nor participation quotas to be part of this.
Many of us have made real and factual comments to support WCG on this issue. The majority have willingly joined and contributed - each in our own way from minimal, modest, to mega ... It all counts and is valued. My request is that everyone stop taking the bait from wcgridmember. Don't feed the frenzy. |
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wcgridmember
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Post Count: 110 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
@aaabaaab Thanks for the tip! What tool did you use to make those estimations? Let's say for the i7 (our best machines at home are laptops and our smartphones are pretty much no good for crunching WCGrid tasks).
----------------------------------------@Sgt.Joe I totally get you. I was not talking about the costs of running WCGrid to brag for contributing more than anyone else. I was talking about it, because I wanted to make the point that the costs for lots of people running WCGrid are not negligible and I asked for compassion, because of negative comments such as suggestions I could be "purposefully ignoring" obvious things, that I am a "silly goose" or that I am a "troll and twister". Please show me some compassion and respect, my dear co-members. From the above comment, I understand that if I was a troll, then I guess my modest contributions (both in terms of computing power and comments in the forums) should not count and should not be valued (I know they do count and are indeed valued - at least by some of you). My relocating and investment ideas in the previous comment were half-serious, half-joking, but the point I'm trying to make - that the costs are indeed great - is 100% serious. I know this (deciding how much you contribute to WCGrid) is a personal decision, but just like there is a calculator for how much you should give to the poorest in the world (besides other donations you might give), someone should build a calculator for how much computing power you should give away to WCGrid based on the hardware you got and financial resources. I let this challenge to a WCGrid mathematician member. I'm serious. I won't show you my poker face only for privacy reasons. Then my face would be associated with all your bad comments and that's not funny. ;-) [Edit 2 times, last edit by wcgridmember at Jul 20, 2019 12:42:19 PM] |
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Falconet
Master Cruncher Portugal Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Post Count: 3294 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
wcgridmember,
----------------------------------------He most likely used a wattmeter to get the power usage figures. Cumprimentos. AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz [Edit 1 times, last edit by Falconet at Jul 20, 2019 9:24:50 AM] |
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aaabaaab
Cruncher Joined: Jul 31, 2016 Post Count: 42 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
@aaabaaab Thanks for the tip! What tool did you use to make those estimations? You're welcome! I used a power meter to measure electricity consumption for each device with something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Electricity-An...-Equipment/dp/B07M8JKLG5/ Then got the results for SCC wu on each device and compute average time needed per wu. |
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wcgridmember
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Post Count: 110 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Could it not be the case that you are sent less computing intensive work units to your lower end devices?
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