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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 80
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Falconet
Master Cruncher Portugal Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Post Count: 3315 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I did post threads asking for updates on the three intermittent projects because I am interested in the science. I am okay with the current 3 projects handing out work. The SN2S project, for instance, was going to ask permission to run clinical trials and I wanted to know if that permission has been asked and what its status is. I am more than happy with the current amount of work available. Whenever there is a new project/resumed one, that's just great.
----------------------------------------![]() - AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W - AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W - AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I was trying to empathize with you branjo but obviously I was not successful.
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AgrFan
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: Apr 17, 2008 Post Count: 397 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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deleted
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by AgrFan at Feb 9, 2014 5:58:57 PM] |
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Jim1348
Veteran Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 13, 2009 Post Count: 1066 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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You have all managed to convince yourselves that there is a problem, but I would like to know what it is. Is the computing power (GFLOPs or whatever) going down? I have not looked, but doubt it.
----------------------------------------The reduction in the number of participants has one obvious explanation: as machines get older, they are retired because they can't compete with the new machines, which now typically have 8 cores, and so you get a much larger contribution with fewer machines. As for the world economy, the GNP of the world today is considerably greater than it was 10 years ago, so that is a non-explanation. However, the shift to hand-held devices by the newly-affluent populations probably has a lot to do with the drop. Being able to tap into that will make a greater difference than moaning about the loss of old machines. It would be nice to see more projects, but as long as the ones we have are doing worthwhile work, then just having more is not particularly relevant, except as insurance that the well will not run dry. But with all the work left on the ones we have, that will not happen anytime soon. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Jim1348 at Feb 9, 2014 3:31:47 AM] |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I'm open to possible explanations but that one doesn't seem likely based on the charts I linked to earlier. You have a sharp increase in active users after the giveaway started followed by a decline of about 2000 since the beginning of the year. I don't really see how you can explain that based on people retiring machines and/or migrating to other devices.
----------------------------------------But the real issue, as I've already said, is that we shouldn't have to be guessing about what the causes are. Someone from WCG should be looking into this and telling us. ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Feb 9, 2014 3:37:06 AM] |
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Falconet
Master Cruncher Portugal Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Post Count: 3315 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Aren't users considered inactive after their RAC drops to 0? If many Ripple members joined, completed a few tasks and then stopped contributing, their RAC would take a while to drop to 0, and thus, to be considered inactive.
----------------------------------------According to BOINCstats, users are considered active if they have granted credit in the last month, so I guess it would take for a user that returned 1 task in the last 30 days to considered inactive, even though he hasn't been active in a while. ![]() - AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W - AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W - AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz |
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johncmacalister2010@gmail.com
Veteran Cruncher Canada Joined: Nov 16, 2010 Post Count: 799 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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You have all managed to convince yourselves that there is a problem, but I would like to know what it is. Is the computing power (GFLOPs or whatever) going down? I have not looked, but doubt it. The reduction in the number of participants has one obvious explanation: as machines get older, they are retired because they can't compete with the new machines, which now typically have 8 cores, and so you get a much larger contribution with fewer machines. As for the world economy, the GNP of the world today is considerably greater than it was 10 years ago, so that is a non-explanation. However, the shift to hand-held devices by the newly-affluent populations probably has a lot to do with the drop. Being able to tap into that will make a greater difference than moaning about the loss of old machines. It would be nice to see more projects, but as long as the ones we have are doing worthwhile work, then just having more is not particularly relevant, except as insurance that the well will not run dry. But with all the work left on the ones we have, that will not happen anytime soon. Hi, Jim: We're not all convinced there"s a problem with the research.... There certainly is a problem with the immoderate comments posted by some crunchers. Anyone not happy here is free to contribute to other research initiatives. crunching, crunching, crunching. AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-core Processor with Windows 11 64 Pro. AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core Processor with Windows 11 64 Pro (part time) ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by John C MacAlister at Feb 9, 2014 12:47:51 PM] |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Aren't users considered inactive after their RAC drops to 0? If many Ripple members joined, completed a few tasks and then stopped contributing, their RAC would take a while to drop to 0, and thus, to be considered inactive. According to BOINCstats, users are considered active if they have granted credit in the last month, so I guess it would take for a user that returned 1 task in the last 30 days to considered inactive, even though he hasn't been active in a while. I don't think that's how it works. If you look in the heading of the 4th chart here , it says "have granted credit in the last month." While RAC is based on granted credit, the chart doesn't appear to be using RAC as the criterion. As for what 'month' means, I assume that it's using trailing 30 day period, otherwise you wouldn't be getting daily changes in the number - but I suppose there might be other ways of looking at that aspect. But I don't see any other way to interpret the title of the chart. ![]() ![]() |
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Byteball_730a2960
Senior Cruncher Joined: Oct 29, 2010 Post Count: 318 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Twilyth,
I appreciate the effort that you have given to WCG over the years. 227 years of crunching is an awful lot of effort especially in the years when dual core was cutting edge. I also love your enthusiasm for improving things which to be honest most (including myself) would be too lazy to bring up. However, the method you have taken to express this is the worst possible way you could have done so. Your demands, accusations and belittling of people (esp the techs) just means that I atleast don't want to listen to you. You are coming across like an old grumpy man mixed with a child who is throwing his toys out of the pram because you are not getting your own way. I could write a whole essay trying to explain my POV on some of the things you bring up but honestly, I don't think you'll listen. I agree with you that things could be a lot better, but I also think the techs do a wonderful job. The way they resolved the error in device statistics was great..simply because it needed very little input from any committee of people. Everything you ask/demand cannot be done overnight but you seem to fail to see that. Maybe you should take a leaf out of Jonnieb-UK's book. Approach people with facts, respect and they'll listen to you. Listen to them too instead of rebutting everything they say and we'll get a conversation going. The way you are doing things are alienating me. If you are alienating myself ( and possibly others) through your actions, then you will get nowhere with this crusade. Do you think alienated people will listen to you? Nope, they won't! So, personally, I would be happy if you took a step back and approached from a calmer angle. You obviously are under no obligation to listen to my ramblings of course. |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Thanks for the observation, and at the risk of rebutting what you're saying, I think we both know it doesn't matter if people listen to me or not since nothing is likely to change.
----------------------------------------This is why I left these forums years ago and didn't return until the previous cancer project. I would have been happy to stay away but I needed information about running that project and so had no choice but to keep up with things here. And that has been my primary motivation ever since. I probably would have been happy to remain just another cog in the machine until this episode with Ripple Labs made me remember just how recalcitrant and intransigent WCG really is - doing absolutely nothing they haven't been forced to do in terms of trying to improve WCG or the user experience. So I'm perfectly aware of how I'm coming across and that I'm alienating people, but since it really doesn't seem to matter one way or the other, I don't have any incentive to suppress my emotions and try to be more diplomatic. I do realize that I have gone overboard at times and have already stated that I'm making an effort to tone things down - but not in an effort to get the staff or anyone else to listen, but simply as a common courtesy. However I fully intend to express how I feel and point out the things I think are wrong. That is naturally going to make some here uncomfortable. As I've said before, I'm not going to try to conceal how passionate I am about seeing WCG grow or suppress how I feel about the attitude I perceive on the part of the staff. But passion engenders both strong views and strong words. The only thing I'm willing to do is try to be as civil as possible without trying to gloss over or white wash all of the things I see that are wrong here. ![]() ![]() [Edit 2 times, last edit by twilyth at Feb 9, 2014 2:52:54 PM] |
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