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Falconet
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

Thanks for the update Jhindo.
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twilyth
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

The WCG staff has been promising new projects since May of last year and the only one that has actually launched is MCM - which is already getting long in the tooth for people who are motivated mainly by getting a blue badge.

It's nice that the staff bothers to stop by and make promises. At least that means that they read some of what we post here. But the fact of the matter is that there aren't even any beta wu's yet.

So while I appreciate the sentiment, it's results that matter and historically WCG moves at a glacial pace when it comes to actually producing deliverables.
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gb009761
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

twilyth, I certainly hear what you're saying, and I'm in total agreement with you.

Last year (2013), was the first year since 2004 & 2005, when less than at least 2 new projects were launched on WCG (as can be seen from the table, below). Okay, there may have been other things happening in the background which may have prevented the very limited WCG tech staff to bring new projects to the fore, although as this information is all kept "in house", we simply don't know what's going there. What is certain, is that the lack of projects, causes less interaction on the forums, resulting in an environment where people don't have a reason to hang around - thus, the drifting away (hopefully not permanently - but it's certainly a possibility) of people willing to volunteer their time and resources towards the projects running on WCG.

When that survey was brought out, I really hoped that "things would change" and improvements would be visible - although I now wouldn't be too surprised to hear that people have totally forgotten about the survey (perhaps that's what IBM are hoping for?). Indeed, I do remember that more resources (i.e. humans) were being brought on-board WCG in the background - so as to free up the front line technical staff so that they could work on more of the items on their wish list. I certainly haven't seen any evidence of more WCG technical staff being around.

Please WCG, open yourselves up a little, and share with us, the end crunchers, what's going on...

Anyhow, here's those project start/end dates;
	Project	Start Date (23)	Project	End Date (16)

2004 HPF (16/11/2004)

2005 FA@H (21/11/2005)

2006 HPF2 (23/06/2006) HPF (18/07/2006)
HDC (20/07/2006)
Beta (01/08/2006)
GC (21/11/2006)
HCMD (19/12/2006)

2007 DDDT (21/08/2007) HDC (03/04/2007)
AC@H (03/09/2007) HCMD (20/06/2007)
HCC (06/11/2007) GC (21/07/2007)

2008 NRftW (12/05/2008) AC@H (27/06/2008)
CEP (05/12/2008)

2009 HFCC (16/03/2009) DDDT (11/08/2009)
IADS (05/05/2009) CEP (12/10/2009)
HCMD2 (12/05/2009) IADS (24/10/2009)

2010 DDDT2 (17/02/2010) NRftW (06/04/2010)
CEP2 (28/06/2010)
C4CW (23/08/2010)

2011 DSFL (31/08/2011)
GFAM (14/11/2011)

2012 SN2S (22/02/2012) CFSW (19/10/2012)
CFSW (17/04/2012)

2013 MCM1 (08/11/2013) DDDT2 (22/03/2013)
HCC (15/05/2013)
HCMD2 (25/05/2013)
GFAM (12/06/2013)
HPF2 (24/06/2013)
DSFL (05/08/2013)

2014
???? ??/??/2014

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twilyth
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

Thanks for that GB and the effort you put into creating it. That chart is very telling isn't it?

I don't doubt that EVENTUALLY the staff will get around to launching a new project, but that's not the rub. This is:
(perhaps that's what IBM are hoping for?)

Clearly IBM regards WCG as some sort of red-headed step-child or doesn't do enough to supervise the technical staff that they have.

If the staff truly is overworked, then why isn't IBM adding staff? Why isn't there a web page that lists WCG staff? And I don't mean names or contact information, but just position titles sans any identifying information.

On the other hand, if IBM has in fact done their part in raising head count, and there is enough staff to do the work, then where is the supervision? Why don't we have a direct line to someone at IBM who can decide if the current budget is sufficient or not?

No. We're like mushrooms here. They can feed us anything they want and we have no way of knowing whether what we're being told is even part of the truth.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Feb 5, 2014 8:29:50 PM]
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branjo
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

twilyth wrote:...

Branjo: I completely agree that a lot of people are still hurting and that we don't do nearly enough for people in need, not to mention people who are ready willing and able to work but can't find employment except at a subpoverty minimum wage.

I don't know if things are so bad overall that people fortunate enough to have their own computer would mind running BOINC in the background while it's on - but I don't know. Since I run servers 24/7 to crunch I and probably you probably have a different attitude toward this sort of thing. I just hope that if that is a factor, the economy continues to improve and lift everyone up a little in the process.


I am also fortunate to be able to run one BOINC (mainly WCG) dedicated rig and one PC 24/7 and to be able to pay electricity bills by my own (OK, by my family). But look at the most recent Global Business Cycle Status map by Moody's Analytics (here is the interactive map):



Majority of Western and Southern Europe is FUBAR'ed already for several years. Central Europe (mainly Germany) and Northern Europe are up and down almost every other quarter. The USA is slowly catching breath pulling the UK in the safest waters, but still dependant on BRIC's health, which is also quite unstable...

People have other, more closer to themselves problems than humanitarian to solve. Will that end soon? I am pessimistic, but I keep shrubbing. And I am glad I can.
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twilyth
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

I wouldn't read too much into that map. The countries that are at risk are EM economies - emerging markets.

EM's have taken a hit since the federal reserve announced that it would be decreasing it's buying program of MBS and long maturity treasures back in May of '13.

I can explain the reason for that but it's a little dull. Basically it has to do with investors searching for yield and pulling out of EMs now that rates look poised to rise.

Many of those countries also have systemic problems like huge current account deficits or other internal problems.

edit: Western Europe is an example of what happens when you try to implement austerity measures during a credit crisis. Again, I can explain if you're interested but it's pretty boring stuff unless you're an investor.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Feb 5, 2014 9:18:14 PM]
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jonnieb-uk
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

Whilst I might not use the forceful language and phrasing of twilyth I have to agree with the main thrust of his and gb009761 arguments in the posts above. WCG needs to establish meaningful interaction with the community rather than the slow release of minimal information which has been characteristic todate.

Following yesterday's news release I commented that New behind-the-scenes stories from the World Community Grid team was, potentially, a step in the right direction. The news release acknowledged that World Community Grid can sometimes seem like a black hole and listed several reasons why this is the case and the steps being taken to cure them. The glaringly obvious problem of the lack of information coming out of WCG it's self was all but ignored.
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twilyth
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

I should point out that we had a very similar problem at United Devices. UD was recycling work units just to keep us busy and lied to us about what they were doing.

It wasn't until I contacted one of the scientists directly and reprinted his email to me that anything was done - specifically, UD shut down several weeks later.

At least in that instance we an option open to us to find out the truth. It was sad that things worked out the way they did but it was best for everyone in the end.

If the reason why things hardly ever change around here is an overworked staff, then IBM needs to sack up and provide the kind of funding and personnel that's required. Otherwise they're just another UD that would prefer to fake it rather than make it.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Feb 6, 2014 6:34:34 AM]
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alged
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

thks gb009761 for that chart and all the participants for that
interesting discussion.
If as it appears IBM is so reluctant to help WCG is there another entity that can do the job? a chinese or tawainese?? may national pride be objected ?
Meanwhile i appreciate the new feature to present WCG to friends
(even in french ! waouh! ) ; i will do another try around.
But a panel of new projects wud help for sure.
Another element important is whether groups of persons concerned by the diseases, associations, students, are associated
As for me i joined when the Decrypthon was launched on the TV Telethon occurring every in early december. And you see the majority stayed after HCMD 1&2 were over
But i acknowledge that AFM-Telethon did not communicate a lot abt HCMD1&2 afterwards and even the internet site of Decrypthon.fr has been left static (or dead ?) since a long time.
As WCG projects are abt research,prevention and cure they should be more advertised.
keep on crunching , cheers
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Falconet
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Re: Stagnation research and projects over WCG

I believe we will see a new project until April or so.
Till then, we have 3 projects to work on plus 3 others that may or may not comeback (hopefully they will), or at least post some updates soon.
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- AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W
- AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W
- AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Falconet at Feb 6, 2014 3:26:40 PM]
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