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johncmacalister2010@gmail.com
Veteran Cruncher Canada Joined: Nov 16, 2010 Post Count: 799 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I would like to ask about the title that the OP posted "Stagnation research and projects over WCG". Why stagnation? We are currently processing WUs for Cancer Markers, AIDS and Clean Energy. Do you really consider that WCG is in "stagnation" just because it doesn't have any project for GPU? CJSL Crunching for a better future... I just crunch on: there's lots of work....approaching 1 year (352 days) on MCM1. Also processing Malaria Control.net, Simap, Rosetta, Folding@home, GPUGrid, pogs, Asteroids, etc., etc., etc., with TB soon to follow at FightMalaria@Home and other projects following at POEM. Lots of work out there..... ![]() crunching, crunching, crunching. AMD Ryzen 5 2600 6-core Processor with Windows 11 64 Pro. AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core Processor with Windows 11 64 Pro (part time) ![]() [Edit 2 times, last edit by John C MacAlister at Feb 6, 2014 1:44:58 PM] |
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jhindo
Former World Community Grid Admin Joined: Aug 25, 2009 Post Count: 250 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I appreciate everyone's input (and your frustrations). I'd like to respond to your comments..
There are no sinister forces behind the scenes, or some lack of interest from IBM or the World Community Grid team in supporting this program. Put simply, having as many projects as we did last year slowed down our ability to work on many other things. Supporting as many as 12 research projects was a significant amount of work and meant we couldn't spend as much as time on onboarding new projects, for example. Also, each research team comes to us with their own application to run on the Grid, which means different levels of effort in onboarding each project. For MCM, this was an application custom built by the research team specifically for this project. It had never run in a Grid environment and therefore presented us with a few challenges that we couldn't have anticipated and (I admit) made our estimates for launch somewhat inaccurate. While the effort to onboard MCM was significant, our priority is for the researchers to run the tools most suitable to *their* work, so they get the high quality data and results most valuable to them. i.e. we focus on what's the best tool to accomplish the research objectives, rather than what's the easiest tool for us to onboard. As to the lack of beta work units - as stated in my previous post, we're in the very early stages of onboarding the next project. Beta testing happens towards the end of that process, so we're not there yet and we won't be for some time. I do agree with the comments that we need to do more to engage our members and keep them participating. The purpose of the volunteer study was to get a representative picture of how we might accomplish this. The findings continue to help us prioritize our work. For example, this week's release of improvements to our communications capabilities is a direct result of what we heard from our members - that we need to step up our communications! We also recognize that it'll take more than a single change to accomplish this. And we won't always get it right. But I completely reject the notion that we don't care or aren't trying. |
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knreed
Former World Community Grid Tech Joined: Nov 8, 2004 Post Count: 4504 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I should point out that we had a very similar problem at United Devices. UD was recycling work units just to keep us busy and lied to us about what they were doing. It wasn't until I contacted one of the scientists directly and reprinted his email to me that anything was done - specifically, UD shut down several weeks later. At least in that instance we an option open to us to find out the truth. It was sad that things worked out the way they did but it was best for everyone in the end. If the reason why things hardly ever change around here is an overworked staff, then IBM needs to sack up and provide the kind of funding and personnel that's required. Otherwise they're just another UD that would prefer to fake it rather than make it. twilyth, Please differentiate between distributing meaningless work for for long periods of time and not interacting sufficiently with the volunteers. You are more than welcome to express frustration with the pace of change and what is changing and what is not and if we have insufficient level of response to volunteers. There are certainly some sore points in this area that can and are being discussed. But I have invested 10 years of my life in this project and I would never allow work to be unnecessarily rerun (we have had issues a few times that caused work to be rerun and have communicated those events when they have happened). Frankly, the entire support team will be fighting to get out the door if we were to cease running new and/or legitimate work. Further, the project leads, the executives that sponsor the project and IBM would never agree to do something like that as well. The work that we are sending is legitimate and new. We have 3 solid project right now with a tremendous amount of work to be run. The researchers from FightAIDS@Home, The Clean Energy Project and Mapping Cancer Markers communicate in the forums from time to time and give project updates so they are accessible to you. We have had web lectures from two of our 'graduated' projects recently and we are working on getting the third lined up now. These have Q&A sessions where you can ask the researchers questions. Please continue to express, badger, criticize, demand what you want in improvements from us. But please don't accuse/imply things of us that aren't true. - Kevin [Edit 1 times, last edit by knreed at Feb 6, 2014 10:56:26 PM] |
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jonnieb-uk
Ace Cruncher England Joined: Nov 30, 2011 Post Count: 6105 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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jhindo
----------------------------------------Thankyou for the post which is both helpful and informative. Suggestions of not caring or not trying whilst they maybe wrong and frustrating to you, and the team, arise because, as you acknowledge, we need to step up our communications!. All too often legitimate questions of interest to the wider community are met with a resounding silence. We know that new projects take an inordinate length of time to bring on board (though you'll probably have to keep reminding us). In the case of MCM when the promised "late summer" deadline passed without BETAs being released it wasn't the fact that you got the estimates wrong or that it was taking more time and effort than anticipated that caused upset, it was that you weren't talking to us and keeping us informed. Two further examples of lack of information or communication: In the last couple of days a member has posted requests for updates om the 3 projects cirrently suspended. Good for him, but WCG should be providing this information as a matter of course on a regular basis even if, as in the case of HfCC, it merely reiterates the project scientist's update of Sep 2013. In June 2013 knreed replied to my query about Community Advisors Yes - this is something that action is overdue on our part and that we are discussing. If action was over due 8 months ago it is more so now particularly in the ongoing absence of the inestimable SekeRob but once again SILENCE!I commented following the News release earlier in the week I particularly look forward to New behind-the-scenes stories from the World Community Grid team If this is used effectively it has the potential to be a powerful tool in creating a proactive relationship between the WCG team and the Community at large, rather than the reactive relationship we have at present. All the above concerns could be addressed by effective and timely use of this tool. Can we expect at least monthly reports? [ecit] knreed highlights the recent web lectures with Q&A sessions following for completed projects. These were well received by the community. I'm sure a web lecture with Q&A to follow staged by the WCG tech team would be received with almost universal approval. Time and effort would be required to put it all together but I'm sure it would be a sound investment. Afterall time was found to fly to France and present a lecture to the BOINC workshop. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by jonnieb-uk at Feb 7, 2014 10:33:46 AM] |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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knreed: I think it was obvious from what I wrote that I wasn't drawing a direct comparison to UD. If you read into it something that wasn't there, I would suggest you read it again.
----------------------------------------I'll admit that maybe I didn't make my meaning as clear as possible, but how anyone could read what I posted and walk away thinking I was accusing WCG of the same sort of underhanded dealing many of us here encountered at UD is simply beyond me. Since you seem to need me to clarify though, I will. The parallel between UD and WCG is this - in both cases there was a complete lack of transparency for the users. Neither you, your staff nor IBM have done anything to address this issue except to issue what seem to be empty promises of change. The sorts of things I proposed could be done right now if you really wanted to. Tell us how many new people have been hired for your staff. When were they hired. What are their job functions. How many more people do you need. Why is IBM ignoring your plight if you're really so overworked. Etc. Communication is easy my friend. It's only a problem if you have something to hide. ![]() ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Feb 7, 2014 12:29:58 AM] |
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deltavee
Ace Cruncher Texas Hill Country Joined: Nov 17, 2004 Post Count: 4894 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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knreed: I think it was obvious from what I wrote that I wasn't drawing a direct comparison to UD. If you read into it something that wasn't there, I would suggest you read it again. I'll admit that maybe I didn't make my meaning as clear as possible, but how anyone could read what I posted and walk away thinking I was accusing WCG of the same sort of underhanded dealing many of us here encountered at UD is simply beyond me. Since you seem to need me to clarify though, I will. The parallel between UD and WCG is this - in both cases there was a complete lack of transparency for the users. Neither you, your staff nor IBM have done anything to address this issue except to issue what seem to be empty promises of change. The sorts of things I proposed could be done right now if you really wanted to. Tell us how many new people have been hired for your staff. When were they hired. What are their job functions. How many more people do you need. Why is IBM ignoring your plight if you're really so overworked. Etc. Communication is easy my friend. It's only a problem if you have something to hide. You started out by making some valid points, but that's now being lost in this vitriol. I'd like the WCG staff know that I am grateful for their efforts and for having these three wonderful projects to work on. |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I know that I can be rather blunt and that is only aggravated by seeing what I perceive as a casual indifference - not only to my concerns about WCG but of all of the people who not only are dissatisfied with the way things work (or don't) around here but HAVE been dissatisfied for YEARS and years.
----------------------------------------I'll be happy to give the staff and IBM due gratitude when they stop treating us like indentured servants and merely paying lip service to our concerns and actually start to act on them. As the saying goes, talk is cheap and that's all we seem to have gotten so far. When that changes, so will my attitude. In the mean time, I apologize to anyone I may have offended, but this is something I'm passionate about as I think I've demonstrated by my long service here. I just can't stand the fact that we were given such an amazing gift from Ripple Labs and we are doing nothing but squandering it. I won't apologize for the passion I feel - only the fact that I may not always express it in the most diplomatic of ways. ![]() ![]() [Edit 3 times, last edit by twilyth at Feb 7, 2014 4:13:28 AM] |
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cowtipperbs
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Aug 24, 2009 Post Count: 78 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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knreed: The sorts of things I proposed could be done right now if you really wanted to. Tell us how many new people have been hired for your staff. When were they hired. What are their job functions. How many more people do you need. Why is IBM ignoring your plight if you're really so overworked. Etc. something to hide. Ok I might not be the sharpest knife, with that said. Why do you need all this info? What good will come of it? I would bet, if they gave you that info (which I don't think they need to), you would find something wrong with their response, for example if they said 3 new people were added to the project, you would comeback with why only 3 why not 4. And at the same time ask to see there resume. their back ground check, past work history and 10 more things, you and I donât need access to. Again what is that going to gain the project. Why not contact WCG and let them know you have a skill set they could use, and work it from that angle, I bet they would take you up on the offer. What skill set do you have that could help WCG? In closing WGC..... keep fighting the good fight. ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by cowtipperbs at Feb 7, 2014 5:06:17 AM] |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2130 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Thanks for the input CT, but it's not so much about the specific questions I raised as the issue of transparency.
----------------------------------------For example, for years, since I joined seven years ago, the standard mantra we get from the staff is, 'oh we're so busy' or 'oh we're so overworked.' Poor babies. I've worked in IT so I know that business from the inside and I will never trust another programmer when he or she says 'I don't have the time' because 90% of the time it's bull. And when you have no way of independently verifying that, which we don't, you just have to accept it. Well, I'm tired of accepting it and so should everyone else. That line is as old and tired as 'the dog ate my homework.' If you don't have the head count to do a job, you hire more people. If you don't, that's your problem - deal with it. If you can't because you don't have the budget, then at least have the courtesy to tell that to your users and give them the chance to take it up with your boss. ![]() ![]() |
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AgrFan
Senior Cruncher USA Joined: Apr 17, 2008 Post Count: 397 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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deleted
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[Edit 11 times, last edit by AgrFan at Feb 9, 2014 6:00:23 PM] |
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