Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go ยป
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 60
Posts: 60   Pages: 6   [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 4690 times and has 59 replies Next Thread
Movieman
Veteran Cruncher
Joined: Sep 9, 2006
Post Count: 1042
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Need some help here from you CA genuises! Resolved

After two days of running these new E5-2697 12 cores and seeing app 200,000 WCG PPD I suddenly see the point award dropping from app 24 PPh to close to 10PPH/ per core..
All on the FAAH project running win7-64 ultimate
Discussed at the end of this thread.
Thanks!
https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread_thread,35702
----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Movieman at Oct 30, 2013 3:31:50 AM]
[Oct 28, 2013 4:58:50 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Movieman
Veteran Cruncher
Joined: Sep 9, 2006
Post Count: 1042
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

This image shows the issue. Look at the claims at the top vs the claims at the bottom..WAY off of what they should be,,

[IMG]http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7333/exq0.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Movieman at Oct 28, 2013 5:50:48 PM]
[Oct 28, 2013 5:48:27 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Mamajuanauk
Master Cruncher
United Kingdom
Joined: Dec 15, 2012
Post Count: 1900
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

Movieman, this could be to do with the averaging that goes on in the qorum/replication. as in if you claim 50 the other machine claims 50 you both get 50.

However, if you claim 50 and the other one claims 40 you get 45 each (ie [50+40]/2)...

I've seen this with some of my wu's especially on faster machines. this may not be the reasom, but it may...
----------------------------------------
Mamajuanauk is the Name! Crunching is the Game!



[Oct 28, 2013 6:40:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Movieman
Veteran Cruncher
Joined: Sep 9, 2006
Post Count: 1042
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

Movieman, this could be to do with the averaging that goes on in the qorum/replication. as in if you claim 50 the other machine claims 50 you both get 50.

However, if you claim 50 and the other one claims 40 you get 45 each (ie [50+40]/2)...

I've seen this with some of my wu's especially on faster machines. this may not be the reasom, but it may...

I checked this and no, this is single. IE: No wingman.
I also think you missed what I was saying. On these WU my machine is claiming app 10 WCG points per core per hour vs the 24-25 it was claiming before. I "beleive" this to be a function of the WU itself not my machine. Then if any more proof of this is needed is it credible to beleive that this machine which for all reality has the top cpu's money can but, 24 cores at 3226 MHz, IB arch, is only getting what a decent 6 core would get? Just no logic behind this that I can see and thats why I asked for help here..
----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Movieman at Oct 28, 2013 7:40:07 PM]
[Oct 28, 2013 7:39:14 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Movieman
Veteran Cruncher
Joined: Sep 9, 2006
Post Count: 1042
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

Ahh, I see lawrence is here.
Ok genius, what do you think? biggrin
----------------------------------------

[Oct 28, 2013 7:42:43 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher
USA
Joined: Jul 4, 2006
Post Count: 7668
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

I am not Lawrence, but I can offer another observation. I too have noticed this with my machines running Windows, and not only the ones running Linux. I have a q6600 running Vista and it gets very poor points, about 7 to 9 points per hour. At one time it was doing about 15 to 18 points per hour. I have done nothing different with the machine so I don't know why the difference. On the other hand I have an AMD 9150e with Win 7 which has consistently done 11 to 15 points per hour. It seems unaffected by whatever is affecting the Linux machines and the Vista machine.
I agree with you that something is amiss. My first thought is I do not think this has to do with your machine but with the way the server(?) is awarding points. But, after looking at your times, I am discarding this notion.Your times for these units should be much faster with the kind of horsepower you have in those processors, even given the Windows penalty you are paying. I know the units are inconsistent with times, but there seems to be a bottleneck someplace.
The only thing I can think of right off hand would be to cut the hyperthreading and see if there is a difference. Then try cutting the number processors in half and see if there is a difference. If the WU's show a rebound in how they perform, then you need to start looking elsewhere for the bottleneck. If there is no rebound, then maybe it is a software/OS problem. At the moment I feel like I am shooting in dark.
Good luck.
Cheers
----------------------------------------
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers*
[Oct 28, 2013 9:14:52 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Movieman
Veteran Cruncher
Joined: Sep 9, 2006
Post Count: 1042
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

I am not Lawrence, but I can offer another observation. I too have noticed this with my machines running Windows, and not only the ones running Linux. I have a q6600 running Vista and it gets very poor points, about 7 to 9 points per hour. At one time it was doing about 15 to 18 points per hour. I have done nothing different with the machine so I don't know why the difference. On the other hand I have an AMD 9150e with Win 7 which has consistently done 11 to 15 points per hour. It seems unaffected by whatever is affecting the Linux machines and the Vista machine.
I agree with you that something is amiss. My first thought is I do not think this has to do with your machine but with the way the server(?) is awarding points. But, after looking at your times, I am discarding this notion.Your times for these units should be much faster with the kind of horsepower you have in those processors, even given the Windows penalty you are paying. I know the units are inconsistent with times, but there seems to be a bottleneck someplace.
The only thing I can think of right off hand would be to cut the hyperthreading and see if there is a difference. Then try cutting the number processors in half and see if there is a difference. If the WU's show a rebound in how they perform, then you need to start looking elsewhere for the bottleneck. If there is no rebound, then maybe it is a software/OS problem. At the moment I feel like I am shooting in dark.
Good luck.
Cheers

Joe: You make good points except for the fact that the first 2 days I ran this same combination I was getting an average of just over 200,000 WCG PPD. Nothing else changed at all and I mean nothing with the exception that it looks like a differnet batch of FAAH WU are being done. This is why I think there is a flaw in those WU..Then add in that I ran a 10 core E5-2670 V2 before this, same arch, and tthose got app 140,000PPD at 3047MHz..There is no issue on this end that I can see and shutting down HT wouldn't give me the info I need and if anything would skew my own numbers the wrong way..
----------------------------------------

[Oct 28, 2013 9:28:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

Well, I have no qualifications to justify a response, but I'll dive in with some observations of my own anyway devilish :

  • The points that your machine claims are determined by the server, not your client.
  • If a client is new (and maybe if it hasn't been running a project for a while, too) it tends to claim high to start with.
  • After a few results the "levelling" process brings it down to a more consistent level.
  • The mix of science you run on a client can affect the way any particular client claims points. (I assume that this is because different machines are more or less suited to specific implementations of the algorithms used. If one science app claims high on a particular client I think it has a knock-on effect to what the other science apps claim too.) I guess this could drag numbers either up or down, depending on the mix of app and architecture.

But the main point is: new boxes/apps tend to claim high at first and then come down. This seems to be what you're seeing.

What do others think?
[Oct 28, 2013 10:11:34 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Movieman
Veteran Cruncher
Joined: Sep 9, 2006
Post Count: 1042
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

Well, I have no qualifications to justify a response, but I'll dive in with some observations of my own anyway devilish :

  • The points that your machine claims are determined by the server, not your client.
  • If a client is new (and maybe if it hasn't been running a project for a while, too) it tends to claim high to start with.
  • After a few results the "levelling" process brings it down to a more consistent level.
  • The mix of science you run on a client can affect the way any particular client claims points. (I assume that this is because different machines are more or less suited to specific implementations of the algorithms used. If one science app claims high on a particular client I think it has a knock-on effect to what the other science apps claim too.) I guess this could drag numbers either up or down, depending on the mix of app and architecture.

But the main point is: new boxes/apps tend to claim high at first and then come down. This seems to be what you're seeing.

What do others think?

Replying in order:
1) That's good to know. I didn't know whether it was the server or client that made the "claim"
2) Client isn't new, has over 35 million points on this install and runs just the FAAH WU so this is a moot point
3) read my response to number 2, makes this moot also
4)same as above, this is a consistant machine so again, moot point BUT I do thank you for bringing up these points.
The exchange of info is how we all learn!
----------------------------------------

[Oct 28, 2013 10:26:17 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Need some help here from you CA genuises!

Movieman,

In your first post you said "After two days of running ..." so I assumed that that was all the time the box (installation) had been up. The levelling process takes a number of WUs to sort itself out, so it may not be exactly time dependent. And I certainly don't know the details, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's based on some statistics which are gathered every 12 or 24 hours. Either way, my own feeling is that two days is actually pretty quick to sort out the levelling.

If I misunderstood I'm sorry. And I certainly have no other explanation for what you're seeing.
[Oct 28, 2013 11:02:38 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 60   Pages: 6   [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread