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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Only minutes before the UK announcement

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/22/us-...oll-idUSTRE75L4BY20110622

The survey of nearly 19,000 people in 24 countries also showed that nearly three-quarters of people think nuclear energy is only a limited and soon obsolete form of energy.



The sooner it's obsolescence the better.


Can someone point me to the UK policy that underpins the new nuclear build and renders obsolete instead perfectly safe alternatives?

Ah yes that will be this

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2008/pdf/ukpga_20080027_en.pdf

and this

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/h...ov.uk/files/file43006.pdf



Looks like I will have to emigrate, permanently, the lunatics continue to run the asylum
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Hardnews
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

'perfectly safe alternatives'.

It depends what you mean by perfectly safe. Perhaps you're confusing it with some personally emotive factor. More people die installing solar panels in the US than have been killed worldwide by nuclear power installations: solar power is more dangerous per watt generated than Chernobyl:

http://www.wind-works.org/articles/BreathLife.html

And the cost of wind power is not mortality free either:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-per-twh-for-all-energy-sources.html

For every megawatt of wind/solar power, the UK installs .75 to 1 Mwatt of 'other power' for when the wind don't blow, or the sun don't shine. The future of power-gen in the UK, as the last four governments have proposed is a hybrid scheme of renewable and nuclear. Fortunately, we get 20% of our UK power from a purpose built nuke plant on the French coast, and many of our power supply companies are owned by none-UK corporates, EDF (French) and Scottish and Southern (Spanish).

The technology of nuclear power, far from being obsolete, is just entering a golden age.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Hardnews at Jun 24, 2011 8:29:34 AM]
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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

A adorable piece of text from DenialDepot:

http://denialdepot.blogspot.com/2011/06/co2-v...-man-its-your-choice.html

Blog Science offers the public empowerment. No longer must we suffer years of "education" and be forced to bow down before peer appointed so-called "experts" as they cast down facts upon our heads.

No, those are the old ways. Thanks to the Internet and Blog Science you can now become a science expert in a day and start generating your own science from scratch. You have the potential to be a world famous blog scientist, we all do. You might choose to become a blog chemist, a blog psychic or perhaps a blog geologist. All you need is a blog and a time to write down whatever your brain is thinking on the subject.

And if you don't want to become an expert, Blog Science allows you to become a Blog Science commenter. You can even put this as BSc on your CV. Blog Science commenter is an important role that allows you cheer from the sidelines while boosting the impact rating of the Blog.

Furthermore as a commenter, Blog Science offers you a wide catalog of ideas about the world and lets you choose which one you want to believe. That means you can choose whatever ideas fit in best with your political or religious beliefs. If you want we can also provide you with justifications for your choices if you are later challenged by practitioners of the old ways.

For example I really want to believe human CO2 emissions are too small to matter, and I will find a way to justify that belief.

A warmist blog, tauntingly calling itself "Open Mind", has just attacked Dr Ian Plimer, the 2nd most famous climate scientist in all of Australia*. Dr Ian Plimer's crime? He has chosen to believe volcanoes emit more CO2 than man, as is his right. He has also given generously this gift to the public.

The warmists hate this kind of thing. They want everyone to follow the old ways. They want "geological societies" and "textbooks" to fix so-called "facts" in stone which must not be disobeyed by mere laypeople. They hate it when Blog Scientists offer their ideas in the press or on tour.

In a comment over at Open Mind, William Connolley, the stoat in a boat, thinks he has found a great argument against Plimer:
"That volcanoes aren’t a major source can fairly trivially be shown by just looking at the CO2 record. If Pinatubo was a major source, there would be a sharp jump up when it erupted. But there isn’t."

The words "can fairly trivially be shown" are a red flag. In Blog Science nothing is known with any degree of certainty because everything can be challenged.

For example I would say the reason there is no sharp spike in CO2 when Pinatubo erupted is because scientists have been measuring CO2 on the wrong volcano. They have been measuring CO2 levels on Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii. This argument may or may not make sense, but it's confusing enough that it doesn't matter. In Blog Science justifying one's beliefs is as easy as making it sound like you have.

Furthermore as has been pointed out craploads of times, scientists shouldn't be measuring CO2 inside the craters of volcanoes full stop! Yet still those so-called "scientist" elites march up the volcano each day in their lab coats with their equipment under their arms and and dip their co2ometers into the crater. With each passing year they dip the co2ometers a little deeper down so each year it looks like the CO2 level is rising!

Of course what I have just said there may not be right - it probably isn't because it's just a story I made up - but it will sound like you know what you are talking about if you can go into details such as what Keeling ate for breakfast each morning. The use of imaginative stories to smear so-called "scientists" is encouraged in Blog Science. It adds entertainment as well as smear.

What's interesting about Blog Science is the freedom it gives you. The old ways demanded adherence to a thing called "consistency". Blog Science does not unnecessarily restrict you in such a way.

For example, it might tomorrow become expedient for me to accept rising CO2 is due to man. I might want, for example, to cite the merits of increasing levels of plant food to ward off the coming ice age. Or perhaps I just want to accuse warmists of using a strawman ("Of course I accept man is causing CO2 levels to rise. No-one denies that! What a strawman! The cause of CO2 rise is not the issue. What skeptics are questioning is whether CO2 rise has a warming effect!"). This doesn't mean I have to stop believing volcanoes emit more CO2 than man.

And that's the memo.

*High Admiral Lord Monckton, Child of the Mother of all Parliaments and Guardian of the Pink Portcullis, is the 1st most famous Climate Scientist in Australia of course.


Seems that the Chilean Puyehue-Cordón is also accounting for negative CO2... all the air traffic that's being grounded. ;O)

As for the [trivial proof]... The Keeling Curve demonstrates it quite well that volcanoes of the past 45 53 years have had no discernible impact. Where are these Plimer volcanic burbs?



It's hot here... Global cooling works wonders.

--//--

Edit: 53 years... since 1958, and not measured below a tree canopy!
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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Do you think I have ruined my chances of getting this?

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/jobs/current-vacancies/002126


Sek what I find most amazing about the Keeling Graph (It isn't exponential by the way) is that those peaks and troughs are just the Planet blooming in the NH followed by the autumn die off. That shows me just how granular the data is as it varies by 9 ppm through the passage of a year. That's 9ppm in 394ppm just by the arrival and growth of green leaves.

Have yoiu noticed that the biggest yearly changes are in El Nino years such as last year and 1998. This goes to show how much CO2 is held in the Oceans and Lakes as it outgasses as the Ocean Warms through El Nino like a Coca Cola bubbles on a warm day.

It also shows me that 99.9606% of the Atmosphere isn't CO2 and that a whole big alarmist lie that the little bit of gas essential for all life on Earth (with all of us being Carbon Based Life forms) is behind an unfolding climatic disaster yet this dsaster is invisible in amongst the natural background variation.

That is what I find most amazing about the Keeling graph


Dave
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by David Autumns at Jun 24, 2011 4:31:10 PM]
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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Thanks Hardnews

It's good to have another view on here

I would have to disagree on the lack of casulaties of Nuclear Power

At Fukushima Daiichi the death toll currently is zero on account of the 2 meltdowns and the 1 melt through

By this measure the comparison with Solar and Wind looks like a winner

However what are the longer term consequences?

Still zero?

If someone develops a tumour tomorrow or indeed in 60 years time or a child is born with a genetic defect that blights their life both cases on account of the radiation that wouldn't be present in absence of a Nuclear Power Station is it still looking as golden?

Emotive? Definitely

Worth fighting to prevent? Absolutely

Dave
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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Hardnews

Doesn't look like 20% to me

http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Realtime/Demand/Demand8.htm

At the time of this post just under 1GW is being imported from France

It never gets any bigger than this as the National Grid manages the base load
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David Autumns
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

Just one more thing.....

http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/peter-falk-...passes-away-aged-8/219994

Falk died peacefully at his Beverly Hills home in the evening of June 23, 2011

God bless you Peter Falk rose
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Hardnews
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Re: Not sure how much longer they will be able to keep crunching in the UK

No, you're right, 5% max says Wiki-peeja, over the Interconnexion France Angleterre, my error. I'm told by office chatterers that the UK has around 18% of total consumption from nuclear, my confusion.

The emotive side of nuclear power protesting ('some people might die in the future') seems to me to be a ludicrous paradox in a country with some 100,000 deaths a year (don't quote me) caused by alcohol.

Would not enlightened and intelligent members of an emotively concerned society protest against, and address the issue with the largest avoidable deaths first? A ladder licence in the USA for instance, could lower the terrible death rate occasioned by 1000 solar power installers falling off roofs every year, and the placing of alcohol into a restricted substances category, given the statistics, would seem to be wise moves. If those two issues alone were addressed, 110,000 more people per annum would be alive to join the anti-nuke power protests.

It seems to me, Dave, that your humanitarian work is cut out. You must strike at the salient points first, leaving nuclear power alone for a while until you've fixed the bigger issues first. Once the lethal ladders and the booze are out of the way, using just a smidge of our vital 18% nuclear capacity, you could then start to address the 1 billion 21st century global tobacco deaths the UK cancer research people tell us are due:

'Worldwide, tobacco consumption caused an estimated 100 million deaths in the last century and if current trends continue it will kill 1,000 million in the 21st century. '

One might also note, that 18% (don't quote me) of the cancer research work units returned from the UK on WCG might well be powered by atom plants. That, I think, is a splendid paradox: I wonder how many WCG crunchers smoke, climb ladders, fiddle with lethal solar panels, use nuclear power, and drink?

21st Century nuclear power-related deaths to date: 0 (this could change)

21st Century Solar Power-related deaths (USA): 11,000.

21st Century tobacco-related deaths: 1 billion. (estimated)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Hardnews at Jun 26, 2011 7:13:42 AM]
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