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retsof
Former Community Advisor USA Joined: Jul 31, 2005 Post Count: 6824 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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BOINC struggles with Win98, but works fine with Win XP, and also with vista with a couple of caveats.
----------------------------------------I; like many older IT guys find that they end up in 'charge' of less technical friends machines. Since I am also the IT guy for my religious institution Pray for them. [couldn't resist] I started in the last month putting BOINC on my boxes at the house. My daughter's AMD-64 X2 was quiet as a mouse until BOINC, now it's constantly noisy since BOINC default settings use more CPU (in it's dual thread) than UD's did causing the fans to turn on - all the time. My 6400+ 3.2GHz (overclocked to 3.45GHz) X2 has an industrial strength fan running at low RPM (2400) surrounded by some copper fins that take out the heat. It's more quiet than two other computers next to it. Two BOINC workunits stay busy 24/7 in there.My wife's P4 has turned sluggish running boinc on its hypertheaded virtual dual core. You may get better results by turning off the hyperthread in the BIOS. It's a "pseudo dual core", but there's only one floating point register in there, so it thrashes back and forth. The most gain on a HT is running a floating point application (like this) with a non-intensive integer based application, like a word processor.I have many other machines to convert, I'm not sure that I'm going to do it and may very well switch to some other CPU charity that doesn't use this software. I'm sitting at a friends' house with a Pent D on it, deciding if I really should switch or take a chance that they will not call me complaining. And YES, I am aware that I can lower the CPU usage threshold, but frankly, UD should give the code that they used to 'auto adjust' in the background to BOINC and get the CPU usage issue fixed or reset the default so that BOINC isn't as aggressive. The BOINC throttle is available in processor tab of advanced options but it is very uneven and starts and stops to get an "average". BOINC works better at 100% with adequate cooling to keep the computer running smoothly. There are a few grid computing applications out there that don't use BOINC, but they are still going to try to use 100% of the idle cycles by design. That's the whole idea. Folding@home, some astronomy and mathematical packages, and a few others come to mind. Depspid/Dependency Spider/BOINC (must be online), DIMES (must be online), are two that can run in conjunction with other things, and don't use all of the power. but have not put it on my laptop yet where I run ZA. But since it's an older unit, I'm sure I'm going to have to scale the throttle way back. There are some simple solutions, like elevating the machine on a metal pie rack, getting one of those base pad coolers with some fans in it, or simply opening the CD drawer so air can get in. One of those might work. If not, go for the BOINC throttle.
SUPPORT ADVISOR
----------------------------------------Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads School i7 4770 8threads Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads Home i7 3540M 4threads50% [Edit 4 times, last edit by retsof at Mar 30, 2008 3:24:34 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
sbsidlov, you seem to have a few misapprehensions.
Firstly, and most importantly, the BOINC developers are aware of BOINC's flaws - and they are working on them. The throttle used under UD was written by WCG, not UD. United Devices haven't done anything to their software for many, many years. Unfortunately, the WCG throttle was applied to the science application, so it can't be applied generally to BOINC. Of course, the throttle is one area where the developers are trying to improve BOINC. May I suggest you don't attempt grid computing on very low end machines? It simply isn't efficient, in terms of time, energy, and most especially money. When you work out the cost of computing in kWh per workunit, you will soon decide that saving up for a faster, energy efficient computer not only saves money - but also does more crunching. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Everybody seems to read different things in sbsidlov's post. What I read is that the BOINC default of running as many threads as possible is not what he wants. I understand this since I always urged people with Pentium 4 computers to only run 1 thread. Go to My Grid - Device Manager - (selected profile) and choose Custom Profile. Then set 'On multiprocessors, at most use: 1 processors' in the Advanced Options. This will let your computers run speedily and much cooler, the way they did while running UD's single thread. If they are still too hot, go to Basic Options and set 'Use no more than: 50 % of processor time' which will run for 1 second and pause for 1 second. You should be able to run a single thread at 100% without any heat issues on a desktop. Lawrence |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Finally someone who doesn't insult me.
LawrenceHardin, I will give your suggestion a try and see how it goes. I find the responses from the other parties bordering on insults. While I don't run the fastest hottest processors, in less than a year, I've still racked up more than 1.2 million points, 4 years and nearly 300 days of computing time with my 'poor old equipment.' I had significantly more before the WCG with the old UD Grid project. These machines are all left on 24/7 for various reasons, automated in the night backups and updates, 24 hours mail processing (I have one computer that get 12,000 emails a month after filtering by ISPs), and whatever else needs to be done. They are not totally busy, so I have donated CPU cycles since the mid 90's whenever there was a decent client (not all windows, etc). I'm not donating an entire computer's processing power, but free cycles from many computers when they are not in use, regardless of processing power. Running BOINC or anything at 100% is not reasonable for this type of charity, the person who sits down at the unit must be able to perform their own work, etc., else we can't afford the computers, etc. Telling me that maybe I shouldn't donate free cycles from older equipment is sort of spitting into the wind, as older equipment is what drives a lot of people's desktops at home and many offices. Thanks. |
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retsof
Former Community Advisor USA Joined: Jul 31, 2005 Post Count: 6824 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I find the responses from the other parties bordering on insults. no more so than the title of this thread in the first place, "BOINC Agent sucks". We tried to contribute a lot of assorted hints in spite of that, which I see as parting shots. "BOINC still sucks" sounds like a preemptive insult, which dares us to say anything or else. Whenever I want to do anything during the day, BOINC backs off or stops completely when another application wants 100%. It runs at low priority. There's no inferference here. My $800 off the shelf components-for-the-first-one-I-at-age-60-ever-put-together-computer runs Vista Ultimate quite well at the moment, but I did turn off the aero glass graphics to save some cycles. For $800 and watching the Frys sales, I got an AMD X2 6400+ Black Edition 3.2GHz overclocked to 3.45GHz, an ASUS M32N32-SLI Deluxe Mobo, 4 Gb of OCZ memory, LG DVD recorder and 2 hard drives with a total of 1 terabyte of space, Antec case with 475 watt power supply and a large Zalman fan. The Win98 0.5MHz machine was retired. UD ran OK, but BOINC is too intense for it. My oldest currently crunching computer started out as a Dell 1.7GHz from Goodwill, which kept it out of the landfill. It crashed soon after. I had a computer store transmogrify it into a 2.0GHz AMD, overclocked to 2.4GHz, which runs cooler than another 2.4GHz because it is newer. Reuse of components meant a total cost of about $300. It's sitting on a Win3.11 DOS computer, which is too old for any of this.
SUPPORT ADVISOR
----------------------------------------Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads School i7 4770 8threads Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads Home i7 3540M 4threads50% [Edit 5 times, last edit by retsof at Mar 30, 2008 6:10:27 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
sbsidlov, it is your call as to what is a low end machine unsuitable for crunching, and what is an older machine still worth using. We trust your judgement, but I wanted to make you aware that there is a cutoff.
World Community Grid try to give guideline limits in terms of the minimum specifications, but there is considerable flexibility. Nobody cares whether you contribute with ancient machines or the newest hardware - we just care that you contribute at all. Thank you. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello, Malcw and Ziggy66, and others frustrated with the UD - Boinc transition,
----------------------------------------I experienced a great deal of frustration installing Boinc and getting it to work properly on Linux (I did not have any difficulty replacing UD on my M$ XP machine), so much so that I believe I caused people like Didactylos to pull out their hair. But Didactylos and company kept up, as unpaid volunteers, until I was able to get the thing running properly. I am grateful for their help. However, the key to my success was my perseverance, too, and willingness to be open to new ideas. In the end, I had Boinc working just fine as a good guest in my home where it remains. Contributing unused computer power to good causes is worth the effort. So, as a cruncher, I ask you to continue on. When you find a success to a transition problem, let the WCG team and other users know by publishing the solution in this forum. It will help other users. Perhaps WCG ought to consider making a separate forum for the UD transition in which users can ask for advice and share their experience on transition problems. It would be sad if you leave the community simply because of some frustration when I know there are solutions to each problem with a bit of effort. Remember, we are the Grid. Our efforts contribute to understanding disease. In the big picture the sufferers of those diseases experience far greater frustration than certainly we experience installing Boinc and connecting to the WCG. I am glad I stuck it out as I now see it was worth it. It is truly good to give. Persevere. Hope you stick around. Good luck. Mark [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Apr 7, 2008 1:08:23 AM] |
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retsof
Former Community Advisor USA Joined: Jul 31, 2005 Post Count: 6824 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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good thoughts there...
----------------------------------------Perhaps WCG ought to consider making a separate forum for the UD transition in which users can ask for advice and share their experience on transition problems. Since UD can be deinstalled on its own and BOINC is really separate, we still look at this BOINC support area in the forum for install problems with BOINC or strange BOINC messages in the log. If we see recurring problems, like installing on Vista, we'll set up a FAQ message with recommended solutions and fixes. The BOINC problems should really be the same whether an old member has stopped using UD or a new member is coming in for a first-time install with BOINC.
SUPPORT ADVISOR
----------------------------------------Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads School i7 4770 8threads Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads Home i7 3540M 4threads50% [Edit 3 times, last edit by retsof at Apr 7, 2008 1:21:18 PM] |
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BuGEaR
Cruncher Joined: Nov 30, 2005 Post Count: 1 Status: Offline |
Hi, the email I also got says:
This is a reminder that you need to install the BOINC software before May 31, 2008 in order to continue to donate your unused computer cycles to help humanity. The process of migrating to BOINC is very easy and takes less than 5 minutes. but on My Grid page after I log in I see and plans to stop sending work units to computers with the UD software by June 30, 2008 So which is the right term? |
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Sekerob
Ace Cruncher Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Post Count: 20043 Status: Offline |
well, it was June 30, then it changed to May 30 and now it shows June 30 indeed on My Grid (at this moment of writing). The website was just updated yesterday to add the download links to the My Grid page, so there is a chance that an old revision was reintroduced....or the plan changed overnight....
----------------------------------------@nelsoc, any idea? ![]()
WCG
----------------------------------------Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All! [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Apr 15, 2008 8:54:45 PM] |
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