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keithhenry
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

The more things change, the more they stay the same.......

I remember many years ago back in the 60's, there were VERY similar cries of doom and gloom about overpopulation and, in particular, air and water pollution. There even was a series of stories run in the local paper written by famous authors of the day about various scenarios for the end of mankind and civilization. Then there were the movies like Soyalent Green too. Funny, back in the 50's, there was a bunch of movies about nuclear weapons and such - Dr. Strangelove, The Day the Earth Stood Still, and all the mutant animal ones. Today, the issue is global warming. We have our Chicken Littles of the day along with our ostriches just like back then. And as back then, the truth is certainly somewhere in between. Pollution was a real problem. It was not as dire as it sounded but it was a problem. We had rivers in bad shape, we had our Love Canals, the smog in LA and plenty of other specifics. We've made changes, improved the situation, cleaned things up and changed our behaviours. Pollution is not a non-problem. We still have dead zones in the oceans, the air in Beijeng is news the world over, but we no longer ignore the subject. The same is happening now with the topic of global warming. Maybe we are causing it and maybe we aren't. Still, to be the good stewards of our Earth we are supposed to be, does it really matter if we are or aren't? Maybe what is more important is that we acknowledge that our actions could possibly have consequences on the environment and what matters is understanding our world better and living with it and not just in it. If we engage in activities that release CO2 into the air, what is the harm in trying to minimize that? To find better ways that release less? Just as with nuclear weapons, pollution and over-population, we learn that our actions have consequences and we must hold ourselves accountable for our actions. It may not mean the end of the world and civilization but neither does it mean we can ignore the issue either.
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[Oct 13, 2007 2:27:35 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Dataman
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

The more things change, the more they stay the same........


Well said Kieth.

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[Oct 13, 2007 2:31:43 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

Maybe we are causing it and maybe we aren't. Still, to be the good stewards of our Earth we are supposed to be, does it really matter if we are or aren't? Maybe what is more important is that we acknowledge that our actions could possibly have consequences on the environment and what matters is understanding our world better and living with it and not just in it. If we engage in activities that release CO2 into the air, what is the harm in trying to minimize that? To find better ways that release less?


Well said. What is the harm in trying to reduce it? Can't people acknowledge the possibility exists? In the words of Kurt Vonnegut, "We could have saved the Earth but we were too damned cheap."
[Oct 13, 2007 6:25:06 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Agrajag2
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

Hi All

Keith you know me better than that I'm all for reducing the impact on the environment. It's the whole CO2 Global Warming Tax and Al Gore thing that drives me crazy. It's the propaganda, the fear inducing, the "green" taxes that result to no green effect, the "thou shalt not question this" the "you are sponsored by exxon" plain bullying of anyone expressing an alternative view that really gets my goat. The man is a thug and he has abused his position as the almost president elect with such effect.(btw I would have voted for him in 2000 if I was an flag)

Thursday his documentary denounced as political propaganda by a UK Judge with fundamental errors (which I have tried to make the case for all along), Friday Nobel Peace Prize for the very same rolling eyes

How can this be compared to the life long dedication of someone like Mother Teresa?


It still looks like a very typical soggy October Day in the UK outside but that must make me a Frog in a pan of boiling water LOL

I'm pretty sure you would never keep a frog in a pan long enough for it to simply boil alive wink Has anyone tried this?

Maybe that should be the science everyone should be doing in schools proving weather (deliberate typo) frogs really do sit there simmering. From this we could then deduce the potential accuracy of the Inconvenient "Truths"

Miffed Dave biggrin
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Agrajag2 at Oct 13, 2007 2:01:21 PM]
[Oct 13, 2007 1:56:38 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Agrajag2
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

Why I love the Internet

http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp

Looks like that UK judge should change the Untruth's Count to 10 biggrin
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[Oct 13, 2007 2:11:05 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

Whatever else you might say about Al Gore; whatever criticisms you might have against him, you have to admire his tenacity for the work he does and congratulate HIM on receiving appropriate recognition.

PEACE IS GREEN: GREEN IS PEACE
[Oct 13, 2007 3:50:35 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
GEORGE DOMINIC
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

its up to the kids

keep talking

from a diffrent planet

is gonna make a diffrence

n understood diffrence

nobody takes politicians seriously

its not a problem

nonsequiter even

demt
[Oct 13, 2007 5:54:34 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Agrajag2
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

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[Oct 13, 2007 9:34:38 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
keithhenry
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

Dave, logic has nothing to do with the behaviour of the human race. It is our Cassandras, our Chicken Littles that produce overall change. Sad to say but we do need them. The human race is a cannonball in flight. Steering it is no simple matter. If you try to do that from behind, you will be totally frustrated. If you try to do that from the front, you will be dead. To steer a cannonball in flight, you have to continuously push from one side or the other and, of course, run like heck to keep up with it. We are equally enthralled by great leaders and great despots. Individually, we can think and reason. Collectively, we are driven by emotion. Our evolution as a civilization is a journey from emotion to reason. Auto safety would not be what it is without Ralph Nader's Unsafe at Any Speed. Silent Spring help galvanize the environmental movement. For Gore's An Inconvenient Truth to succeed as a lie, there has to be some kernal of truth on which it was based. It was when we started to understand the magnitude of MAD and how even a small exchange could result in a nuclear winter, then we as a race started to move towards disarmament. The value of our Cassandras and Chicken Littles is not in their message. It is in their getting the rest of us to consider the subject and to discover the real truth. That is when we as a lifeform start to act.
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[Oct 14, 2007 5:35:33 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Agrajag2
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Re: laughingCan You Save Al Gore?laughingNEW YOUTUBE DEBATES laughing

Fair do's Keith but give the man a Nobel Peace Prize !

You can over egg the argument

Turning on an Incandescent Light now feels like a rebellious act.

You can have too much of a good thing and just when the sane reality of our predicament has re-established itself after the absurd Live Earth concerts another unquestionable institute gives Al Gore the platform again the very day after a UK Judge pronounced the "Inconvenient Truth" an Alarmist Political Propaganda Message that should be introduced as such before it is shown to any UK School Kids.

It's plain to see that our current lifestyles, without any investment and research into the efficiency of renewable technologies, are unsustainable.

I'd just like to know at which point the Greenies embraced Nuclear Power as the best thing since sliced bread?

I'd had my fill earlier this year when I opened a newspaper and was greeted with the consequences of Global Warming (I paraphrase) great clouds of Methane were going to erupt from the sea and we would be incinerated in the flames that result as we walked down the street. The UK was pictured as thousands of tiny islands.

I was with the MMGW crew right up to that point.

They have gone too far and their message now sticks in the throat.

by the way we are approaching Sunspot Minima on the Sun's eleven year cycle in Jan/Feb next year http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/sunspots/ no sunspots at all on the picture for today and La NiƱa is likely to continue into early 2008 http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/enso_advisory/ensodisc.pdf


I'm no Scientist but I expect the Winter this year to be a wet and cold one

(not taking into account the effects of 350-450 parts per million, depending on which newspaper you read, odourless, transparent, non-toxic, essential for photosynthesis, consequently making up all of the carbon in my being, component of the atmosphere that has been here since year dot)

It's cold outside because I'm in the UK and it's October.

Peace Prize I ask you wink
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[Oct 14, 2007 9:21:28 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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