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Thread: My Orange Mobile Phone |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 61
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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even better http://www.phonesforall.co.uk have a freephone number 0800 043 1221. If you call a freephone number they pay for your call.
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18667 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Ah! I managed to miss the point about these being "resellers". I dealt with something similar with AT&T (I think). When I'd switch my long distance from them to someone else, I'd get a few calls trying to get me back. Not all were specifically from AT&T. Some were from companies they contracted with. Now, when I dump a telco, I explicitly tell them to place me on the "do not call" list that they have or anyone they contract with uses (ie, you give your list to anyone, it can't have me on it). Sounds like Orange can stop anyone in Orange from calling you but while they share their customer list with their resellers, they don't share their "do not call" list. Even if you have a national "do not call" list in the UK like we do in the US, that won't help as it typically excludes those a company has an existing business relationship with. Yes, this is Orange's problem. These resellers are agents representing Orange (not that I'm a lawyer, I'm not). I'd try writing the head honco of Orange, explain the situation, inform them that they need to find a way to stop their resellers from calling you, and if not, you will consult with a barrister about having them charged with harassment/stalking/anything else you can try. That should get their attention. I'd also copy as much of the "world" as I could - your MP, any semi-relevant government agency (at any level), any consumer groups that may be remotely relevant, any groups you may have there like the Better Business Bureau here (including the British version of the Chamber of Commerce), and every possible media outlet you can think of (maybe one will pick it up for the "David vs Goliath" angle). Vengence may be divine but it sure feels good to be the "venger"
---------------------------------------- Oh, and once the dust settles on all this and they are leaving you alone, dump them. |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Cheers Keith
----------------------------------------As part of my "upgrade" I had to sign up for another 18 months (instead of the usual 12) back in March so my mobile water torture could last a while. I think i'll draft page 1 of the 10percentoffmybillandafreeupgrade website and then as you say I should write to Orange to at least give them a chance. I'm currently waiting for them to call me back (I had to give them permission to do so) having looked into how phonesforall contacted me. As a telecoms engineer it's annoying that it's my trade that gives the likes of phonesforall the technology to harass folk like me in such an efficient manner btw have you come across the works of the great Tom Mabe http://www.tommabe.com/ superb Dave |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18667 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Sigh....yea....I work for an IT company so I tend to keep quiet about that. Folks seem to expect that I know all there is to know about computers but I be the first to admit I don't.
----------------------------------------I tend to pity folks with telemarketing jobs. Even the crooks have to high the poor saps to make their calls. The abuse they get has to be bad. Then again, I always marvel at our ability to lash out. Never have understood why folks mouth off at the cop that's pulled them over. Given that they have a gun and can throw you in jail, it just seems prudent to try to at least be civil with them (but that's another thread). Wading thru the bureaucracy of a company can be extremely daunting. Like any bureaucracy though, getting what you want it directly related to getting to the right bureaucrat. If the situation has me steamed, I try to warn the poor soul on the other end of the line and explained that I understand that they weren't the one directly responsible for my problem. I sometimes add that getting mad never helps, it's more more effective to get even (so to speak) Around twenty years ago, my kid brother and sister were graduating college. One bill from American Express had a flyer in it for some (rather nice) mechandise that they were offering. I called, explained that my order was graduation gifts and had them confirm that they did have them in stock. Unfortunately, once the order was then placed, it rapidly went downhill in a "comedy" of errors. I got promised that they would investigate my problem and call me back. Nope, didn't happen. That's how I came to call them one day, explained yet again my problem (no merchandise) and, when promised that they would investigate and call me back, politely explained that that was not acceptable and that I was not about to hang up. I understood that they were probably timed on how quickly they handled calls so I had no problem with them transferring me to someone who could take however much time fixing my problem took. The only way I was hanging up was either with my problem fixed or them hanging up on me. Well, they scrambled around trying to find someone who could take my call and did in a fairly short time. Naturally, I explained the problem yet again to that person (along with the comedy of errors that had occurred) and how I had no intent of ending the call until my problem was fixed. I ended up being told that the merchandise I had ordered was not available but that they would expidite getting me comparable merchandise at the same price. Well, what I got was indeed quite comparable, much on the upside of that. Still, I paid the bill when it came, confirmed that they got my payment and posted it correctly and then closed my account. I have never done business with American Express since and a fair number of folks have heard the story too. When you only hear from typically one out of ten dissatisfied customers, you'd think businesses would see the importance of fairly and quickly resolving a customer's problem. Compost happens, mistakes will happen, but I think it's fair to expect the first mistake to be followed by a resolution, not more mistakes. A customer who had a problem and got it resolved quickly and fairly can be just as effective a reflection on the company as the customer with no problem (if not more so). Unfortunately, when things go wrong between you and a business, getting it fixed is possible but tends to take far too much of our time that it should. Stand your ground, make them fix the problem and now, not 32 calls from now, and then insist that they release you from your commitment as compensation for your trouble. If they really do fix the problem and they are the best deal for you, stay with them. If not, dump 'em. Good luck! |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Keith a man after my own heart. I'm always quick to point out that it's not them that ring me up up every day and harrass me but they are just the unfortunate's who have stumbled into justified wrath.
----------------------------------------Here's a tale that I once heard many years ago that is confirmed from another website where I grabbed this. Orange listen up.... “Granny Hinchcliffe’s Tale” This true story, going back sixty years, also demonstrates the power of the customer and the impact they can make on the bottom-line. In addition, it illustrates just what an emotional business we are in! We were working with a group of Customer Service Managers from this award-winning retailer, exploring the lifetime value of customers to their business. We also looked at the cost to the business of customer defection when one of the delegates volunteered the story of Granny Hinchcliffe. She explained she had never before told this tale to anyone at work but the subject matter of the meeting had caused her to appreciate how her family’s spending pattern had been influenced by her Grandmother and how one business had been affected as a result. The heroine of the tale is the eponymous Granny Hinchcliffe who lived in York. In 1942, at the height of the War she was aware that her youngest daughter’s birthday (our client’s grandmother) was just around the corner. Despite rationing she wanted to get her daughter some chocolate for a birthday treat. With this in mind, Granny Hinchcliffe went into Thornton’s in York and asked the assistant for some chocolate, explaining why it was important to her. The assistant shook her head and politely explained that they had no chocolate to sell because of wartime rationing but offered some alternative such as a gingerbread man. Granny Hinchcliffe was disappointed but got out her purse to pay for the gingerbread man when she became aware that another customer had entered the shop. This lady was served by another assistant, who greeted her warmly, and said, in hushed terms: “Hello there. I’ve put some of your favourite chocolate by in case you came in”. On hearing this, an indignant Granny Hinchcliffe asked the assistant who had been serving her why this lady had been offered chocolate when she, herself, had been refused. She was told: “I’m terribly sorry – but this lady is a special customer”. Our heroine put away her purse and walked out of the shop saying that she would never be a customer of Thornton’s again – let alone a special customer! Now, fast-forward 60 years to 2003. At our meeting, Granny Hinchcliffe’s granddaughter who herself has grandchildren, suddenly realised the commercial impact of that service encounter 60 years previously. She explained that Granny Hinchcliffe had kept her word and had never been into a Thornton’s shop since that event. Not only that, but none of her 3 children had been into one either. There was an understanding in the Hinchcliffe family, handed down a generation, that Thornton’s was not the place for them to buy their chocolate. But it goes deeper still. Not only did Granny Hinchcliffe’s children express solidarity with her wish but also passed on the same message to their children, our client included. In turn their children have been indoctrinated with the same principle and their children’s children are currently being educated in the same way! As our client expressed: “This is now the fourth generation of the family who have never been into any Thornton’s shop only because of what happened to my Grandmother sixty years ago. Most of her great-grandchildren don’t even know why we have never shopped there – they just know you don’t go in”. The commercial impact of this tale was profound. No member of the family had ever considered breaking the unspoken family rule. The realisation was that this well respected, high quality retailer had lost the business of 4 generations of the same family and didn’t even realise it. Over a 60-year period the potential impact on profitability from this one disaffected customer was significant. The work we had been doing with this client revealed that the lifetime value of the average-spending customer to their business is £105,000. That’s the potential cost of a single defecting customer. What about the impact of customer defection when the cause triggers an emotional response that filters down a generation to family and friends – and does so again and again? |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18667 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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...I'm always quick to point out that it's not them that ring me up up every day and harrass me but they are just the unfortunate's who have stumbled into justified wrath. I think you're being a bit generous with Orange. You are THEIR customer. This list of customers, in some form, is getting to their resellers. 'Twould seem that it would have to come from Orange. Two points, if Orange can tell their resellers who their customers are, why can't they tell them which customers have asked not to be called? If a given Orange customer has already signed up for the upgrade, why can't they tell them which customers already have upgraded? Either one of these would seem to offer you peace and quiet. Now it's not impossible that a reseller could figure out you're an Orange customer by some other means but I suspect Orange is the most likely culprit. Process problems like this can make for nasty battles and are usually the ones that cause the most grief. Plus, when confronted, if neither point is true, the simple question "then how????" could well expose some interesting information that will point the way to the culprit. |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Hi Keith
----------------------------------------Orange will not release me from the contract as they have not defaulted at their end. They cannot stop their rogue dealerships from ringing me up. They cannot instruct their reseller base that I don't want to be rung up as I have already had my new phone. Oh and there is no record of my complaint on Tuesday So for those who have seen their latest ad's I'm going to sing like a Canary cos this Panther has teeth This time next week if I can't get any resolution http://www.10percentoffmybillandafreeupgrade.co.uk will go live The best response I just had was that they couldn't put me through to their commercial department as they aren't "Customer facing" it would be LOL if isn't wasn't funny David and Goliath All the best David  |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Arghh, why do I let junk like this get to me?
Maybe it annoys me that so many people lack any form of social conscience (heck, any sort of conscience at all!) and believe (mistakenly) that it is quite all right to take the hapless consumer for a ride. In this particular case (and I'm not going to be coy: I hereby name and shame NETBENEFIT, the scummiest of the scummy domain registrars) the company is trying to block a registrar transfer and demand all sorts of paperwork (and payment!) for what should be a simple operation that concerns them not one whit. Nominet were no help of course. But after searching long and hard through the rambling and badly written terms and conditions, I am confident that the Office of Fair Trading will have a very strong case against them. Because, you see, (as Nominet informed me) they do have a right to charge - but they had better bl**dy well tell people about it beforehand! And they don't. There is one vague subclause about unspecified charges that may be made if changes are made to the DNS - but that's simply not a legal term. Companies simply aren't allowed to mandate unspecified charges to be levied when a customer tries to leave. Fortunately, this is actually codified in law. Of course, making it stick will be a long and painful process - but they made the mistake of ticking me off. Too many consumers just lie down and take this sort of excrement. |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Didactylos
----------------------------------------Go for it. It's not one of those TAG release things is it. Once got stuck with Easyspace never again. As for why you let this junk get you. It's just the tip of the iceberg of all the other injustices you have to put up with daily living in the UK. You know like where does your money go for 5 days when you pay your credit card bill electronically. Why BACS takes 3 working days and the bank charges you £30 for not paying a £27 direct debit even though it can "see" the money arriving tomorrow. That's the bank taking you for a ride once you've got your money then there's the unmentionable bunch who take your money before you get it and then when you've got it help themselves to further huge chunks of it. Then when you need an op they cancel it and the free NHS isn't free any more. £2K for orthadontic work for my beautiful 13 year old because the local health trust hasn't got any cash to do this. Don't get me started on the price of Petrol..... That's why this junk gets to you and these things are only the parts of the injustice you can mention in polite society. Go ahead be my guest and rage against the machine  Dave |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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p.s. I bank with the Bank that made £11.7 Billion profit last year ($22.2 Billion)
----------------------------------------Is it just me or is that a crime? If I was to take £11.7 Billion out of this companies coffers I think I might spend some time behind bars but it's perfectly OK to make an extra £11,700,000,000 off the backs of your customers in a single year after paying all of the costs it takes to do that. It's a funny old world [Edit 1 times, last edit by David Autumns at Aug 29, 2006 10:28:59 PM] |
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