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Re: Book selection input from knowledgeable Brits, desired

After some searching, these titles seemed like the best picks (refer to "Recently Viewed Items" menu on the lower left):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0745...rvi_4/202-2120800-9409462

"Introduction to British Politics," by Dearlove is rated as by far the best seller of the group in the UK. Second would be "Politics and Governance in the UK," by Moran

Any input on these, or other good titles, would be appreciated. smile
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jan 26, 2006 7:38:45 PM]
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

I just don't get it. There was a report this morning on the JA (Jack Abramoff) scandal. The report stated that "the scandal was primarily a Republican problem" because the majority of the funds (66%) went to Republicans while only 34% went to Democrats.

Helllloooo, is anybody home!

First, this is not a Republican or a Democrat problem. This is an "American citizen" crises. Our elected represented officials are allowing our trust, the well being of this country, their legal responsibilities and their integrity "to be influenced" by the highest bidders.

Let's try that again, shall we? "To be influenced by" Riiigggghhhhhht. We know it. They know it. And yet we do nothing to demand an end to it.

Second, of course there is a 2:1 Rep to Dem split. Duhhh! The Republicans have held the White House for the last 5 years (you can't give someone a gift who doesn't even work there). More importantly, they control both houses of Congress. By being the majority party in both houses, they appoint other Republicans to be the "powerful chairmen" of all the "powerful XYZ committees." And exactly what, may I ask, makes this chairman so powerful in the first place? Come on, folks. If you want to influence the decision of the CEO, do you give the mail clerk a bonus?

So, why then is there no public outcry for an immediate end to these abjectly corrupt practices?

Exactly who is it that is going to write the story, or issue the alarm? Not the journalists. God forbid that any journalists get the "powers that be" mad at them. There go the "special perks" of being invited on the political tours, bud; no more "hot leaks" for you, honey; forget being called on to ask a question at the next press conference, trouble-maker. Bye-bye "has-been". We need someone with an "in".

A free and independent press? Please, give me a break.

Apparently those pround Americans who were willing to fight and die for their freedom have taken their courage and vision with them to the grave. For a change, let's be totally honest with ourselves for just one moment. What exacty is the living testiment of our founding father's great struggles and noble aspirations?

It is you and I, my friends. A generation of Americans who believe that we are entitled to ge given whatever it is that we want. And that the best way to get whatever it is that we want, is simply to whine for it.

What happened to us? sad
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

What am I missing?

Social security stands a good chance of going bankrupt. Even if it doesn't, payments are headed down, while requirements are headed up.

Most companies do not require detailed accounting of their pension funding. Of those that due, independent investigators found that the vast majority were "dramatically underfunded." The latest craze in Corporate America is terminating pension coverage.

Health-care costs/premiums continue to skyrocket. Children are living at home longer (age 30!); while seniors are moving back in with their kids. All this is almost entirely the result of rising health-care costs and declining retirement benefits, say the experts.

The average household savings sate in America is at a historical low. The figure is a key indicator of long-term economic stability/resilience.

But privatizing Social Security benefits is a bad idea.

Says who? thinking
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

I just don't get it. There was a report this morning on the JA (Jack Abramoff) scandal. The report stated that "the scandal was primarily a Republican problem" because the majority of the funds (66%) went to Republicans while only 34% went to Democrats.

Back in the 1990's we had the various incidents of what became known as tory sleaze, on noteable case being theCash for Questions Crisis which lead to the incubent Conserative being replaced by an independent MP. One of the upshots of this was the formation of the Standards and Privileges Committee which looks to govern the standards in public life of politicians.

One interesting recent referral is George Galloway (he of the 'Oil For Food' corruption investigations) because of his being in the 'Celebrity Big Brother' TV show rather than attending parliament. He is also being heavily lambasted in certain sections of the press for the very same reason. However there is a degree of hypocrisy and double standards going on here mainly because George has a fairly high public profile and easy to lambast. George may not be in parliament because he is on TV, but there are many more MPs who are not in Parliament because they has one or more lucrative board memberships. They claim it keeps them in touch with business and public opinion. It also supplements their not insubstantial MP's salary thank you very much. One item they do have in their favour is that they have to declare all their interests and income and are not allowed to take part in debate or activities which might cause a conflict of interest.
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

The term "Tory Sleaze" certainly caught on, didn't it? Good story, bb, I was able to follow though to some useful articles. There was one article from the Independent dated 04 May 2005 which stated the following very surprising information:

"The spin that has characterised the Blair administration has gone beyond mere political game-playing into a much more serious cumulative erosion of British democracy and civil liberties - and unlike the US we have no written constitution to fall back on. We rely entirely on our unwritten constitutional traditions, precedents and above all the honesty, integrity and probity of our politicians and public servants. That is why trust matters."

What forms the basis of your legal code of law? How are binding legal precedents (case law) established, then?

The words "above all [we rely upon] the honesty, integrity ... public servants." Frankly, the average American would ask in all sincerity, as I do: The author of this article isn't really serious about the trust issue, is he?

Btw, it would have been much more considerate of you Brits if you didn't have so many political parties playing the "What's my name, now game." Then, of course, there is a full complement of characters to go with each party and each government.

I must declare: Foul, sir! wink
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

What forms the basis of your legal code of law? How are binding legal precedents (case law) established, then?

How much time have you got? biggrin
Lets start with basics, though I have no legal training. First of all we have three different legal systems: England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland.

Sticking with England and Wales, we common law and civil law. The basic difference between the two is that common law comes from precedence and whilst civil laws are passed by parliament.

Lawyers in common law cases will cite precedence, Judges will then decide and pronounce on whether the precedence is binding, or the case different from previous cases.

Civil or statute law come from laws passed by parliament and is the primary source of new laws. Statute law over rides common law, and Judges have little leeway in their decisions, they cannot disregard it or declare it unconstitutional, they can however interpret it in its application to the case in hand.
The words "above all [we rely upon] the honesty, integrity ... public servants." Frankly, the average American would ask in all sincerity, as I do: The author of this article isn't really serious about the trust issue, is he?

Put simply, Yes. Since we have no written constitution (in the US sense) we have to place great store on honesty, integrity and probity, and trust our politicians to do the right thing, (see my comment on judges power on civil law above).
Btw, it would have been much more considerate of you Brits if you didn't have so many political parties playing the "What's my name, now game." Then, of course, there is a full complement of characters to go with each party and each government.

I must declare: Foul, sir! wink

Actually the parties in parliament are quite easy to cope with. Have a look here and then click on the constituencies under Index to see some of the choices of party people had at the '05 election.

Btw at one time I was a fully paid up member of the Legalise Cannabis Alliance (LCA), a fully constituted and registered single issue political party, and even went out canvasing during the Kensington and Chelsea by-election. 'Why?' you might ask.

Well, I know a number of people who suffer from MS and know what a dilitating illness is can be. But I saw first hand the positive effect cannabis as a drug had on these peoples lives, and at the same time saw the negative effects its illegality had. No body in their right mind expected any of our candidates to keep their deposit (you have to pay a deposit when you register as a candidate, if you receive a sufficient percentage of the votes you get your deposit back) let alone win an election, but what we got was a voice in debates and it meant the media had to report on us and our views.

I would like to think that our efforts triggered the medical research into the active ingredients in cannabis, and got a reclassification of cannabis in terms of the law.

This is what most of the single issue parties are aiming for, to exercise their the right of free speech at election time, to force the candidates into some form of debate on the matter and to get them to publicly justify their position.

Possibly there is an answer for you. Put your self forward as a candidate, tell the people your views, and possibly make them think just a little before they tick the box, press the button, punch the hole etc. You don't have to win, you don't have to make people change their views, you just have to sow that seed and just maybe .......
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

Put simply, Yes. Since we have no written constitution (in the US sense) we have to place great store on honesty, integrity and probity, and trust our politicians to do the right thing, (see my comment on judges power on civil law above).

Yes, the more I read, the clearer this theme becomes. It also partially helps to explain some of the "dignified charm" which you Brits possess.

Has the book, "The English Constitution," by Walter Bagehot, 1867 been rewritten/updated that you are aware. Some of his observations of the American system are quite pertinent.

Although your system of goverance is called the "Westminster system of democratic goverance," as an outsider observor this structural definition is not really as useful as an ideological description. While "New Labour" proclaims to be Democratic Socialist, I agree with Wikipedia that it is really a Social Democracy platform. In fact, this definition seems to best describe the basic tenents of your government quite nicely (or so it appears to me). Let me quote:

"Social democracy is a political ideology that ... emphasises a program of gradual legislative reform of the capitalist system in order to make it more equitable and humane, while the theoretical end goal of building a socialist society is either completely forgotten or redefined in a pro-capitalist way.

"The term social democracy can also refer to the particular kind of society that social democrats advocate. … [It] defines social democracy as an ideal form of representative democracy, that may solve the problems found in a liberal democracy. The SI emphasizes the following principles:

"Firstly, freedom - not only individual liberties [freedoms to], but also freedom from discrimination and freedom from dependence on either the owners of the means of production or the holders of abusive political power.

"Secondly, equality and social justice - not only before the law but also economic and socio-cultural equality as well, and equal opportunities for all including those with physical, mental, or social disabilities.

"Finally, solidarity - unity and a sense of compassion for the victims of injustice and inequality."

Would you agree, bb?

Btw at one time I was a fully paid up member of the Legalise Cannabis Alliance (LCA), a fully constituted and registered single issue political party, and even went out canvasing during the Kensington and Chelsea by-election. 'Why?' you might ask.

Well, I know a number of people who suffer from MS and know what a dilitating illness is can be. ...

I would like to think that our efforts triggered the medical research into the active ingredients in cannabis, and got a reclassification of cannabis in terms of the law.


As they say here in the States: 'Mo power to you, bro'! wink Or, more to my own liking: Nice work, my friend. Grass roots campaigns can be highly rewarding - if they succeed. Unfortunately, they can also completely deplete you in the process. I congratulate you for both your efforts and your success.

This is what most of the single issue parties are aiming for, to exercise their the right of free speech at election time, to force the candidates into some form of debate on the matter and to get them to publicly justify their position.

This is a complete and utter impossiblity in our representative style democracy. Hell, it is almost impossible to see a third participant in an election debate; and never a fourth.

Our government is set up in such a way that the single citizen has absolutely no way to have a direct voice in the decision making process except at the local (city) level. And even that is a farce.

Possibly there is an answer for you. Put your self forward as a candidate, tell the people your views, and possibly make them think just a little before they tick the box, press the button, punch the hole etc. You don't have to win, you don't have to make people change their views, you just have to sow that seed and just maybe .......

Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer discussing as a vehicle to learn, with the purpose of sharing perceptions and experiences that result in achieving that ever illusive "common consensus."

Besides, the last time I got involved in politics it was during the late '60s. Full of adolescent ideological enthusiasm, in a short time I was able to break into the "inner circle" of student government at the college which I was currently enrolled. At someone's suggestion I went to a meeting of the SDS.

The speaker opened the meeting with the following words: "We support the overthrow of the government of the United States by all means, peaceful and violent. We actively support all groups which share this aim including the John Birch Society, the Black Pathers, the Klu Klux Klan ...

... at which point I calmly stood up and walked out. Within 3 days I had enlisted in the U.S. Army.

I'm afraid that I prefer the values of a warrior to those of a politician, although the whole lifestyle thing .... wink
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jan 28, 2006 5:21:11 PM]
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

Hamas wins elections!!!! Here go the reporters and pundits again.

Does anybody really believe that this election has changed anything? Palestine is still anarchy looking for an excuse to implode. Hamas is no more in power after the election than Fatah was before the election.

We should not cut off our funding. Not now. That is only punishing the Palestinians for conducting a legitimate democratic election just because we don't like the results. Tough. But it's none of our business.

The act of conducting a fair democratic election is a good thing in and of itself. It doesn't matter what the results are. Nothing has happened except that the citizens voted. What, we should nuke them for that? Hellloooo ...

Hamas now has the legal authority to act on behalf of the Palestinian state in the International Community. So, we just say to the Palestinians: "Hey, guys. Nice election. So, what's new and exciting?"

Then we say to Hamas: OK, you wanted the reigns of political leadership? Good for you.

Now, here's the deal.

First, you pull just one more terrorist suicide bombing stunt and we pull the funding plug. Period. No negotiations.

Second, if you renounce your stated goal of achieving the destruction of the state of Israel, we will engage in diplomatic negotiations with your new government. If you do not, then we will not negotiate with you.

One last thing: You have literally been getting away with murder for decades. It's over. You are now the duly elected government of the Palestinian state. Any future acts of aggression will be treated for what they are under International Law: An act of war. Israel will have every legal right to respond to such aggression using all of their resources. Rest assured that we will no longer intervene on your behalf.

Otherwise, don't call us. We'll call you. And then we hang up the phone. The ball is now squarely in their court.

Then we just shut up and follow through with our promises depending on what they chose to do. We just have to somehow restrain ourselves from acting like the overbearing control freaks that the world is used to seeing.

If we would have just done this from the outset, this problem would have been resolved a long time, billions of dollars and thousands of lives ago. peace
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jan 29, 2006 4:11:35 AM]
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

The only thing that surprises me about Hamas' election victory is that everybody else is so surprised.

On the on hand you had Fatah, which was basicaly Yasser Arafat, has not been able to recover from his death and appears to have no clear idiology. They suffer from corruption and nepotism, and they are seen as capitulating to Israel (partly because they needed to in order for any form of Palstinian government to function).

On the other you have Hamas, which has shown that its idiology is stronger than any one man, as witnessed by the numerous assasinations of its leaders by Israel. It has continued to wage a querrilla war against occupying forces, whilst at the same time providing succour to Palestians in refugee camps.

Now given those choices who would you vote for?
Does anybody really believe that this election has changed anything? Palestine is still anarchy looking for an excuse to implode. Hamas is no more in power after the election than Fatah was before the election.

Let us be careful with our language here as to what we actually mean by Palestine. Any Palestinian authority only exists and functions to the degree that Israel allows it to. With regard to any anrchy it is interesting to note how inital violence following the elections were between Hanmas and Fatah supporters, but it has subtly shifted to Fatah supports against their political elite. How things progress will be interesting particurly when it come to the Palestinain Security Forces.
We should not cut off our funding. Not now. That is only punishing the Palestinians for conducting a legitimate democratic election just because we don't like the results. Tough. But it's none of our business.

The act of conducting a fair democratic election is a good thing in and of itself. It doesn't matter what the results are. Nothing has happened except that the citizens voted. What, we should nuke them for that? Hellloooo ...

Hamas now has the legal authority to act on behalf of the Palestinian state in the International Community. So, we just say to the Palestinians: "Hey, guys. Nice election. So, what's new and exciting?"

Then we say to Hamas: OK, you wanted the reigns of political leadership? Good for you.

One initial problem, to me at least, appears to be the vacuum created by the Bush Administration, whose initial responses appear to have be shock, awe, embarassment and a total lack of policy, thus allowing the pundits a field day. It become a greater problem if policy is formed based on popular thought that has in turn been formed based on the out pourings of the pundits.
Now, here's the deal.

First, you pull just one more terrorist suicide bombing stunt and we pull the funding plug. Period. No negotiations.

Second, if you renounce your stated goal of achieving the destruction of the state of Israel, we will engage in diplomatic negotiations with your new government. If you do not, then we will not negotiate with you.

One last thing: You have literally been getting away with murder for decades. It's over. You are now the duly elected government of the Palestinian state. Any future acts of aggression will be treated for what they are under International Law: An act of war. Israel will have every legal right to respond to such aggression using all of their resources. Rest assured that we will no longer intervene on your behalf.

Form here on in I must state that views expressed are not necessarily reflective of mine own angel

Hmmm not a fantistic deal.
First, what terrorist suicide bombings? These are legitimate querrilla attacks against a State which came about in no small part through terrorism, that is occupying land in defiance of UN resolutions. When are you going get rid of the Israeli regime? After all you invaded Iraq for failure to comply with UN resolutions. These are not civilians we attack but occupiers.

Second, why should we? This is our land, and was our land before you gave it to the Israelis. If you want the jew to have a home land why not give them some of yours after all the USA is big enough, why not let them have New York there plenty of Jews there already.

Finally: You claim that we have been getting away with murder, but our people have died at the rate of two to one for every Israeli. What state, we have no state, or lands and movements are occupied and controlled by Israelis, even those lands which were left to us after the formation Israel are not our own. International law is a two way street, and we have the right which we are right now exercising to retailate against the agressor Israel who is occupying our lands in defiance of International resolutions.
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Re: Contemporary Issues in Economics, Politics and Religion

Although your system of goverance is called the "Westminster system of democratic goverance," as an outsider observor this structural definition is not really as useful as an ideological description. While "New Labour" proclaims to be Democratic Socialist, I agree with Wikipedia that it is really a Social Democracy platform. In fact, this definition seems to best describe the basic tenents of your government quite nicely (or so it appears to me). Let me quote:

"Social democracy is a political ideology that ... emphasises a program of gradual legislative reform of the capitalist system in order to make it more equitable and humane, while the theoretical end goal of building a socialist society is either completely forgotten or redefined in a pro-capitalist way.

"The term social democracy can also refer to the particular kind of society that social democrats advocate. … [It] defines social democracy as an ideal form of representative democracy, that may solve the problems found in a liberal democracy. The SI emphasizes the following principles:

"Firstly, freedom - not only individual liberties [freedoms to], but also freedom from discrimination and freedom from dependence on either the owners of the means of production or the holders of abusive political power.

"Secondly, equality and social justice - not only before the law but also economic and socio-cultural equality as well, and equal opportunities for all including those with physical, mental, or social disabilities.

"Finally, solidarity - unity and a sense of compassion for the victims of injustice and inequality."

Would you agree, bb?

I would agree with you, the above description broadly describes the tenents our parliamentry system a the present time, and New Labour in particular. The Conservative Party under Thatcher was most definately social conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, liberials. However with the move away from conviction politics, to focus group and think tank based politics the lines are getting blurred particulalry between New Labour and Conservatives. A prime example is the current Anti-Terrorism act, which is more akin to what you would expect from a right-wing government than a left-wing one. Which makes the whole situation very difficult for UK citizens, let alone when you are attempting to explain concepts to outsiders.
Besides, the last time I got involved in politics it was during the late '60s. Full of adolescent ideological enthusiasm, in a short time I was able to break into the "inner circle" of student government at the college which I was currently enrolled. At someone's suggestion I went to a meeting of the SDS.

The speaker opened the meeting with the following words: "We support the overthrow of the government of the United States by all means, peaceful and violent. We actively support all groups which share this aim including the John Birch Society, the Black Pathers, the Klu Klux Klan ...

An interesting combination, anti-communists, left-wing blacks and right-wing whites, at least the speaker wasn't being bigoted wink
... at which point I calmly stood up and walked out. Within 3 days I had enlisted in the U.S. Army.

I'm afraid that I prefer the values of a warrior to those of a politician, although the whole lifestyle thing .... wink

I have a problem with both, I could never be a soldier because I would never want to find myself in a similar position to Hugh Thompson. The whole ethos of the armed forces is to obey the orders given by one's superiors, yet as Nuremburg showed (particularly if you are on the loosing side) obeying orders is no defence - damned if you and damned if you don't. As for being a politician, my views and beliefs do not match those of any one political party, so being a being a politician in our party based system is out of the question. This is where we come to a concept that I have been toying with for many years, that of having an additional box on the ballot paper for 'None of the above' - however as yet I have not come to satisfatory conculsion on what you do when 'None of the Above' wins the election.
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