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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Ooooo this is going to be fun. Indeed. And thank you for your comments, bb. I look forward to thinking your points through before responding. A great comment, to me, is one which points out something new which then causes me to alter my view of the world. I believe they call it learning. Perhaps we could change the Thread to: "Contemporary Issues in Religion and Politics?" It may be dry, perhaps, but is is accurate and neutral. I have just been listening to Broadcasting House on BBC Radio 4, and during the last five minutes or so they had an obituary to Hugh Thompson with comments from one of his collegues from that fateful day, March 16, 1968. I have skimmed through a few US news websites and can find nothing as yet about Hugh Thompson's death (though this may be due to the USA still being in bed). I am deliberately not saying what happened with regard to Hugh Thompson on March 16, 1968 and subsequently, as it makes an interesting touch point to see how his death is reported and treated arround the Globe. I would at this time like pass on my condolences to his family, and hope that they take my using the reporting of his death in this way not as a sign of disrespect but as a means of seeing the different ways in which we view each other and events. I will not be crass enough to say that it is something he would have appreciated as I neither knew him, his personal philosophy, nor his views on the events he was caught up in. Thanks, bb, if it aired this morning, I didn't see it. We each must make a choice between two positions: "Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong." S.D., 1816 “Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.” G.S., 1872 As a combat veteran of Vietnam my views simply must accomodate my own personal experiences. (I state this only to ensure clarity; not to give my personal views any special consideration.) What Hugh Thompson did needed to be done. It needed to happen long before it did. Thompson made a courageous committment to personally live by what is the best in men while staring down the barrel of a gun held by those who represented what is the worst in men. Not many people will ever understand the life-long price that this man paid for this one act of courage and decency. One isolated individual compelled to stand against "his own" to protect what he knows is "the good" an all men; only to be then despised and held in contempt by so many of the people and the country that just such a person must hold so dear, is a horrible burden to pay for such humanity. It is Hugh Thompson's knowing acceptance of this life-long burden, well before he actually made that fateful choice, for which he deserves our utmost respect and our deepest regards. To the family and friends of Hugh Thompson I offer my deepest respects. Please take some comfort in the certain knowledge that Hugh truly did come to this country's aid to successfully defend and restore our national integrity during one of our darkest and most perilous hours. He is well remembered, with honor and pride, by far more than you will ever know. ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I have just been listening to Broadcasting House on BBC Radio 4, and during the last five minutes or so they had an obituary to Hugh Thompson with comments from one of his collegues from that fateful day, March 16, 1968. Thanks, bb, if it aired this morning, I didn't see it. I'm not sure if you can access the above link outside the UK, the BBC blocks some content access based on the location. However if you can get to the page, click on 'LiSTEN' and then skip forward to the last 15 minutes of the programme in order to hear the obituary. If you can access the webpages, for a taste of what is broadcast news wise to us in the UK, might I suggest listening to the Today Programme, The World at One and, or PM, all of whose pages can be reached from the page listed. Each one programme has a distictive style and content approriate to its broadcast time. For an insight into the British psyche I would suggest listening to Home Truths. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Perhaps we could change the Thread to: "Contemporary Issues in Religion and Politics?" It may be dry, perhaps, but is is accurate and neutral. I can go with that. To start/keep the ball rolling. During this morning's 'Today Programme' on BBC Radio 4 there was a very apposite 'Thought for the Day' which can be read here or heard here (hopefully). In this 2 minute segment, the contributor draws together the weekend's events surrounding the attempted rescue of a whale that had swum up the Thames into London, Humanity's attachment to the animal kingdom and the fallacy of Intelligent Design. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The schedule has been tight, of late. I was able to establish the Links you had shared, bb. Thank you. They have all been excellent to date.
----------------------------------------Frankly, I have been deriving a good deal of pleasure reflecting on your recent posts. It seems almost a shame to respond. Of course, I would never let that stop me. It would be even more enjoyable if this discussion could include well reasoned thoughts and observations from even more members. ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jan 23, 2006 8:12:09 PM] |
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retsof
Former Community Advisor USA Joined: Jul 31, 2005 Post Count: 6824 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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The more I look at the situation, the more concerned I get. Frankly, I don't know enough about economics to have an informed opinion. If you laid all of the economists end-to-end, they still couldn't reach a decision.Most things that happen out there seem to "surprise the economists". We must also take care with the language we use. You know what they say two countries divided by a common language. In my GE days our favourite for winding up the 'Yanks' and the 'Jocks' (slang a nickname for a Scotsman) was to use the word 'presently' in our presentations. "Don't you know the Queen's English?""No, is she????"
SUPPORT ADVISOR
----------------------------------------Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads School i7 4770 8threads Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads Home i7 3540M 4threads50% [Edit 1 times, last edit by retsof at Jan 23, 2006 9:13:38 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
A quick response to our Osama discussion, bb . . .
----------------------------------------The longer Osama waits, the more politically irrelevant he becomes; the easier he is to locate; the more tedious and meaningless his existence. He is far too narcissistic to be off-stage for long. He must do something that will put him back in the game. This is the same reason why I believe that ultimately he “would gladly sacrifice himself.” His dethronement would be too grievous a blow. His own culture would be forced to reject him. Like Hitler, he will exit us first. The strategy in Iraq is starting to work. Sunni militias are fighting Al Qaeda insurgents. The recent elections and post election rhetoric provide an opening for the Sunnis to participate in a new government which will cede them semi-autonomous authority. Any major attack against the West by Al Qaeda would be a fatal error. He may not realize this, but he is probably intelligent enough not to risk increased global support for the U.S. and British war against him. How could the Katrina catastrophe generate hate sentiments towards the U.S.? The only possibility that comes to mind is something like “divine retribution.” Certainly the British are too sophisticated to fall for this kind of tripe? A “Root of All Evil” discussion must soon be forthcoming. It is simply too ripe with possibility and controversy. ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jan 24, 2006 12:41:05 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
No matter how hard the News Networks in America try, they can not put out a superior News program that feature: Broad international coverage; more in-depth analysis of issues; coverage of issues that are impactful more than they are entertaining or sensationalistic. For example.
Ford layoffs: Standard focus is high health-care/pension costs; poor marketing; poor competitive analysis of consumer trends. Consider: Many of the layoffs are offset as foreign car manufacturers build plants in the U.S. This trend is so strong that it almost balances the inevitable phasing out of workers due to new plants which utilize increasingly automated technologies which replace older more worker-dependent plants. Many consumers (my own family, included) purchase Japanese cars because they are more reliable and durable. It is only after they have decided to "buy Japanese" that they begin to look at stylistic considerations. But, even before doing that, many of us first turn to Consumer Reports for an objective analysis of these vehicles. If a model is not amongst the Report's top picks, we are simply not interested. Health-care/pension costs do add an average of $1,200 to the price of a U.S. new car purchase. However, this is not enough to influence most consumer's new car buying decisions. Like other consumers, we would be willing to pay the difference if the quality of the products were at least comparable. Now this is useful information. Unfortunately, this level of coverage requires deligent fieldwork and knowledgeable analysis of the real issues. Bill O'Rielly is an execption to the norm. Because I do not always agree with his position; and because his views are well researched, well reasoned and firmly grounded in realistic considerations; he offers some relief from the steady diet of "white bread and sugar." He made an interesting observation. If he was interviewing the President, the first thing he would ask him regarding the "wiretapping" controversy would be: Since you are legally allowed to initiate a wiretap if you simply subsequently ask for authorization within 72 hours after the incident: Why did you not simply ask for it? If Bill is quoting the law properly: Was the President just pressing the issue? If so, then why? It seems important to know whether Mr. Bush did force this confrontation if it was not actually necessary to do so. "And here's to you, Joe DiMaggio. A nation turns it lonely eyes to you .... " ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The following post first appeared on the above named Thread by zoukfer that can be referrenced at:
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread?thread=5637 I think that the debate about whether a research is done in an ethical or unethical way is a bit biased. A research is done and no matter your intents you'll always find people who'll use your work for the very good and the very bad. The question is more, should a research be avoided if there's a risk of using it with bad perspectives? Scientists seem to always display the best intents but they perfectly know that their researches can be used for the worst all the time. I'm not saying they are hypocrits because they actually often warn about the possible implications of risky researches. My personal opinion is that scientific progress shouldn't be bypassed because of the risks it may generate, but i also think that a necessary link should exists between politics and science, at the root, so that the worst can be avoided (laws, treaties, ect...) .The problem really is in the hands of political leaders, and for sure they won't handle it correctly if they are uneducated. I'm not sure that theology should be a required teaching, i tend to think that mixing politics with religion is a mistake right from the start, leading to nonsenses like Intelligent Design ideas ending up in school books. My own answer to your first question, zoukfr: “The question is more, should a research be avoided if there's a risk of using it with bad perspectives?” actually highlights the inherent paradox involved with scientific research which you have alluded to. Scientific research is inherently academic as are most scientific researchers; therefore its purpose is almost identical to its rationale/methodology: Hence the term “pure research.” This is where we get the stereotype of the “mad scientist” who is unable to avoid the “research compulsion” to achieve success regardless of the consequences either to him, or to the world. Of course, funding sources (and by implication intended future use); impact of prevailing academic environment (including bias, publication potential, internal politics, etc.); impact of prevailing legal and social environment (i.e., stem cell and cloning research); integrity of the research/researchers (i.e. recent cloning scandal in Korea); perceived potential market (uses for) research evidence that could enhance or jeopardize corporate and government agendas/interests; and so on, all factor into even the “purest research.” Since researchers know that “research rewards” go to “he who publish first (not necessarily best)” there is a constant pressure to “stay at the cutting edge” in one’s field. Furthermore, since all research gets immediately put into “the body science,” there is very little lag time between finding “a statistically meaningful relationship” and everyone else know about it, as well. As a result, researchers (as well as interested 3rd parties such as government, military, corporations) know that everyone else is either hot on their heels or one step ahead. Given the market or strategic implications of the research results, the more the research topic has been carefully followed (if not actually funded/sponsored by the most interested parties with the most available resources). The result is that corporations and governments (which include the military) may be even more interested in research that has the maximum destabilization potential since this information serves to exaggerate both the potential risk and the potential reward factors simultaneously. The inescapable conclusion, zoukfr, is that so long as the research work itself is not actually discovered to be in violation of established current legal and ethical guidelines, that can be and actually are enforced, man is powerless to contain the inner and outer pressures to investigate the universe to the best of his capabilities. Simply put: If man can: Man will. Man’s unique neuroanatomy/functionality makes it naturally inevitable. The question then becomes: If we can not stop progress, can we at least be certain that it will always be put to good use? Unfortunately, if are simply honest with ourselves, we must admit that the answer is obvious: Of course not. Look at history. Look at current events. It is simply not our nature. Still, we do have to at least try to minimize the inevitable damage. The topic of introducing religion into the educational curriculum seems to me to be an excellent question for discussion. Unfortunately, it is also a separate topic that I will have to “chime in on” in a later post. ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The longer Osama waits, the more politically irrelevant he becomes; the easier he is to locate; the more tedious and meaningless his existence. He is far too narcissistic to be off-stage for long. He must do something that will put him back in the game. I don't necessarily agree with you, at the moment the US Administration and the UK Government through their actions are doing fine as recruiting agents for Al Qaeda. Each time they take action which can be portrayed as anti-muslim, the more likely it is that disaffected and agreived muslims will migrate to the cause. However I do agree with you that the time is ripe for another show of strength. This is the same reason why I believe that ultimately he “would gladly sacrifice himself.” His dethronement would be too grievous a blow. His own culture would be forced to reject him. Like Hitler, he will exit us first. The big question is, how much is Al Qaeda Osama Bin Laden and if he goes will the organisation melt away or will it splinter into many more factions? At the moment Islam and Islamic states appear to have great dufficulty in rejecting him and his cause outright. Partly in my view due to the issue of Israel and the Palistinians. The strategy in Iraq is starting to work. Sunni militias are fighting Al Qaeda insurgents. The recent elections and post election rhetoric provide an opening for the Sunnis to participate in a new government which will cede them semi-autonomous authority. I am going to with hold my judgement on Iraq pending the forming of a government. The elections are a start, but elections alone do not bring democracy. Democracy is a state of mind, and at the moment there are potentially too many old scores to be settled between the Shias and Sunnis for this to flourish Any major attack against the West by Al Qaeda would be a fatal error. He may not realize this, but he is probably intelligent enough not to risk increased global support for the U.S. and British war against him. I'm not sure, yes an major attacked would certainly bring more for the fight against him, but potentialy only in predominently christian countries. Which would in turn boost the view that this war was anti-islam not anti-Al Qaeda. One is always hearing quotes for people stating that Al Qaeda is killing muslims in it's attacks, and this should rally all muslims against them. However you are fighting against two beliefs, one that it was God's will that the people died, and two that this is a holy war and as such any muslims that are killed will go straight to heaven. Whether due to political expediency, naivety or just a plain knee jerk reaction to 9/11, I beleive the current US administration is wrong in it approach to its war on terror, and is misleading the US people into thinking that fighting a war with guns, tanks, missiles and bombs will solve the problem, or that actions like Camp X-ray, Rendition flights and curtailing public freedoms will do anything other than to serve as recruiting sergeants for the terrorists cause. I don't think I know of any terrorist campaign that has ended other than because the perperators simply got tired of the fight. How could the Katrina catastrophe generate hate sentiments towards the U.S.? The only possibility that comes to mind is something like “divine retribution.” Certainly the British are too sophisticated to fall for this kind of tripe? My reading of of the alleged comments was that the BBC's coverage was rather than being anti-American per se, was anti the administration because it highlighted the failure of the authorities to react with any great rapidity. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
No matter how hard the News Networks in America try, they can not put out a superior News program that feature: Broad international coverage; more in-depth analysis of issues; coverage of issues that are impactful more than they are entertaining or sensationalistic. For example. Ford layoffs: Standard focus is high health-care/pension costs; poor marketing; poor competitive analysis of consumer trends. Consider: Many of the layoffs are offset as foreign car manufacturers build plants in the U.S. This trend is so strong that it almost balances the inevitable phasing out of workers due to new plants which utilize increasingly automated technologies which replace older more worker-dependent plants. This story played out slightly differently here in the UK, possibly because it does not appear to include any Ford jobs in the UK, not that there are that many left. The emphasis was more on a realisation by Ford that they needed to go for new more efficient manufacturing facilites using Japanese style design and manufacturing techniques. However what the pundits picked up on was that Ford needed to pick up on its build quality and reliability if it truely wanted to compete with Japanese manufacturers. As many also pointed out that most cars produced by Japanese companies are no longer imported but manufactured in country and that buying American to protect American jobs could no longer be held to be true. |
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