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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
The deal tol put six of the largest ports in the hands of Dubai Ports World of the United Arab Emirates, plus 2 military ports in the Huston, TX area has created a bit of hysteria here in the US. One of the news comentators, Lou Dobbs, has been so outspoken and critical of the deal that Dubai Ports World specifically refuses to grant his parent network's requests for interviews. It would be entirely inappropriate to pull this deal, provided that a comprehensive national security check was performed. As far as I am concerned the U.S. should be able to conduct "racial profiling," etc. during a War on Terrorism - if such measures are proven to be effective. The same logic holds true in this situation. The U.S. simply must develop the character to make the tough/fair/right choice and leave public/world opinion to the pollsters, journalists and political pundits. If this company passes the muster, then they deserve the contract. Globalization is the most powerful sane, self-interested motive for voluntary and sincere international co-operation on the planet. Besides, the UAE is in a much better position to get an inside track on a terrorist plot then we are. And when your enemy is living on what amounts to one gigantic island, you need to take advantage of any beach-head that is offered to you - as long as it is actually secured. ![]() The fact that P&O are selling off their Ports business to Dubai Ports World has barely warrented a mention in all but the UK business press, even though it means that the running of several key UK ports will be in foreign hands, however the US hysteria over the deal has. But what US citizens think this change of ownership is really going to mean (particulalry when its isn't 100% ownership)? If you go here and use the interactive map you can see how much of the equity in the P&O currently has. http://portal.pohub.com/portal/page?_pageid=3...gprtl&_schema=POGPRTL Then you also get stories like this: Science group slams US visa stance Renowned scientist subjected to "hostile treatment"... http://management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,39156744,00.htm This is not the first time I have seen a story like this, in each case the individual has a letter saying the have been refused a vias and in each case the relevant US embassy claims that they have not refused the visa, but it has been delayed pending some action by the individual. Or like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/thought/documents/t20060217.shtml |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
[bb]But what US citizens think this change of ownership is really going to mean (particulalry when its isn't 100% ownership)? If you go here and use the interactive map you can see how much of the equity in the P&O currently has. http://portal.pohub.com/portal/page?_pageid=3...gprtl&_schema=POGPRTL There is hope on the horizon, my friend. Just this morning there were numerous calls/emails to the major cable networks in which US citizens were reiterating the same basic message: "When I first heard the Dubai Ports World story, I was aghast and angry. The more I listen to the full facts, though, the more I see this as just another example of 'politics as usual'. It was Congress that created this committee several years ago. If it wanted the committee to report back to it, then Congress should have simply included this stipulation in the original charter. Now they are having fits because no one reported back to them? Sometimes I have to wonder what really constitutes the greatest threat to our national security; terrorism or endemic governmental ineptitude." ![]() [bb]Then you also get stories like this: Science group slams US visa stance Renowned scientist subjected to "hostile treatment"... http://management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,39156744,00.htm This is not the first time I have seen a story like this, in each case the individual has a letter saying the have been refused a vias and in each case the relevant US embassy claims that they have not refused the visa, but it has been delayed pending some action by the individual. Or like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/thought/documents/t20060217.shtml At the risk of sounding like an apologist (I'd rather be eviscerated), my impression of the situation is that the real problem in situations such as the Indian professor is that the US is at the mercy of an entirely inefficient bureaucratic system created largely through a spaghetti maze of excessive federalization/regulation and compounded by a rapidly growing but as yet quite imperfect hi-tech/comm network, that is incapable of tracking a weekly market list much less functioning as a "national security screening network." As an illustration, my wife is a native born and raised American of non-ethnic descent. She has a very "waspish" name and is an MD with an impeccable background. Several months after 9/11 I called to secure an early boarding priority with the major US airline she has always preferred to use . .. By this time you have undoubtedly correctly surmised that she had somehow ended up on the "Terrorist Watch List." Despite numerous calls it was impossible to get her off of this list until we jumped through a number of bureaucratic hoops that took almost 6 months to complete. This was a great inconvenience to her as she is forced to travel extensively as part of her career. Since my wife is just another one of the "good guys" banging her head up against the "institutional model of stupidity and inefficiency known as bureaucracy," the press is certainly not going to publish her story, or the thousands just like it. The press will, however, jump on those instances where there is any cause to create controversy through the mere insinuation of even a hint of "unfairness" (whatever the heck that is really supposed to mean). We can protest all we like, but the truth is that this type of reporting has become the "intelligentsia’s yellow press." Call it by any name you like, but it is still the same journalistic sensationalism that caters to the worst in people, while helping to make the world just that much angrier, divided and alienated. Of course, I do not disagree with you "in principle," bb. What I am saying is that just because a story is reported, does not make it necessarily relevant, or really even "true." My own experience suggests "that if it sounds too juicy to be true; then it probably is." It is grossly apparent that the press has become increasingly disposed to purposefully, blatantly and destructively distort the "context/perspective" of a story by "cherry-picking" only those specific facts which then allows them to re-construct their own sensationalized version of the "real full story" through insinuation, inference, innuendo, association, etc. They intentionally illicit specific powerful (and usually negative and destructive) emotions that are highly effective at swaying the reader's beliefs/actions by appealing to knee-jerk emotional reactionism which then just blows right by intelligence and reason as if they weren't even there. Of course, when questioned as to the "accuracy of their story," the journalist merely has to document those specific limited facts that were used to distort the picture as the very same evidence by which they then exonerate themselves. Talk about rhetoric. ![]() The press will never take full responsibility for the neutral accuracy of the full context and "implied impression" of a story since this is their most powerful marketing/sales tool. Thus, the caveat stands: "Let the reader beware." ![]() -- This post has been edited for profanity - nelsoc [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Feb 24, 2006 4:28:00 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
It appears increasingly possible that the terrorists might very well be striking on multiple fronts simultaneously as part of an organized campaign. We need to stay awake.
![]() http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4747488.stm “Saudis 'foil oil facility attack' Saudi security forces have foiled an apparent suicide car bomb attack on a major oil production facility in the eastern town of Abqaiq. At least two cars carrying explosives were fired on at the plant, Saudi officials have said. BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner says the attack is the first direct assault on Saudi oil production. The al-Qaeda network on the Arabian Peninsula has long called for attacks on Saudi oil installations. Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Nuaimi said output at the facility, which handles about two-thirds of the country's oil production, was unaffected by the attack. Oil security analysts have estimated that a serious attack on the facility could halve Saudi exports for up to a year. On news of the attack, the price of crude oil for April delivery leapt as much as 3.4% to $62.60 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, its biggest gain since 17 January. . . . “ |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Let's see if I have this straight?
----------------------------------------A Danish paper prints an "unflattering" charicature of the Prophet - and the Muslim Street erupts in fiery protest for weeks on end. A foreign Islamic terrorist "nukes" one of the holiest Mosques in Iraq, specifically for the purpose of igniting a bloodbath that would claim the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis while reducing the country to rubble - and the Muslim street is silent. Listen, guys. You really need to get a grip. Doesn't it bother you that these are innocent people that would be slaughtered? Because it sure bothers me. ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Feb 24, 2006 11:37:31 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Let's see if I have this straight? A Danish paper prints an "unflattering" charicature of the Prophet - and the Muslim Street erupts in fiery protest for weeks on end. A foreign Islamic terrorist "nukes" one of the holiest Mosques in Iraq, specifically for the purpose of igniting a bloodbath that would claim the lives of thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis while reducing the country to rubble - and the Muslim street is silent. Listen, guys. You really need to get a grip. Doesn't it bother you that these are innocent people that would be slaughtered? Because it sure bothers me. If we choose to accept the the claims that the response to the cartoons was a genuine heart felt response, which now knowing more of the background to the event I do not beleive that we can, but if we do. Then surely this is just human nature, one is an external attack on Islam and the other is internal feuding within Islam. One will elicit a public response, the other will fuel and existing culture of vengence and retributionbetween Shi'as and Sunnis. However as you pointed out in an earlier post, it would be interesting to know who the bombers were, and where their orders came from. For what reason would anyone choose to create civil war in Iraq, who would gain? If the country fractured along ethnic lines the Sunni Arabs would get very little, the Sunni Kurds would come out well so would the Shi'a Arabs. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Now here is some very useful, sound and constructive reasoning.
![]() "Whose Bombs were They?" By Mike Whitney Al-Jazeerah, February 24, 2006 "The belief that the attack was the work of American and Israeli covert-operations (Black-ops) is widespread throughout the region as well as among leftist political-analysts in the United States. Journalist Kurt Nimmo sees the bombing as a means of realizing "a plan sketched out in Oded Yinon’s "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties" (the balkanization of Arab and Muslim society and culture.) Nimmo suggests that the plan may have been carried out by "American, British or Israeli Intelligence operatives or their double-agent Arab lunatics, or crazies incited by Rumsfeld’s Proactive Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG) designed to 'stimulate’ terrorist reaction. "Nimmo is not alone in his judgment. Other prominent analysts including, Pepe Escobar, Ghali Hassan, AK Gupta, Dahr Jamail, and Christian Parenti all agree that the Bush administration appears to be inciting civil war as part of an exit strategy." ... http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editoria...20By%20Mike%20Whitney.htm |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello all !
jd the website of AlJazeera is NOT http://www.aljazeerah.info but http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage And as a hypotesis, it is not impossible... every possibility should be envisaged, unless it is impossible. And this POV is NOT impossible ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
[ns]Hello all ! Well, hello ns. And exactly where have you been of late, young man? [ns]jd the website of AlJazeera is NOT http://www.aljazeerah.info but http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage ![]() Ha! Thanks. I was attempting to find out if there were any leads into the identities of the gunmen who blew the Golden Mosque. While I noticed the differences between the sites, I assumed given the URLs, that they were linked. Care to fill me in? [ns]And as a hypotesis, it is not impossible... every possibility should be envisaged, unless it is impossible. And this POV is NOT impossible ![]() While I agree "in principle," the editiorial fails to offer any specific credible information to support this "new conspiracy theory." Anyone can invent/spin a plausible "conspiratory theory" simply by conforming to the basic rules of logic; and provided they do not violate the basic physical laws of the universe (such as gravity and the laws of motion). This leaves an awfully wide "nonsense gap," wouldn't you agree? As you yourself have pointed out, ns, if any institution has a historical and cultural proclivity for the ability to twist the facts to support their immediate self-interests, in obvious complete contradiction to reality, Islamic thinkers may just be the acknowledged masters. Moreover, for the reader to even consider this "hypothesis," we must provisionally accept premises which are so blatantly inconsistent with the readily observable real world facts, that in the absence of some powerful contradictory evidence, it would be a complete waste of time to consider the "same tired, twisted style of reasoning" that is actually the primary cause of this entire mess. So, ns, why would we bother? You must have some reason for mentioning it, my friend. ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
hello jd, bb and world crunchers :)
About the aljazeerah.info : The web sites are absolutly not linked. The .info is not the arabic channel website, but a site about the arabs peninsula politics (al jazeera in arabic). About the hypotesis: You're perfectly righ jd. I was only talking about NOT elimination hypotesis, even the weakest, and just give them a kind of "likelyhood" percentage. Here, if we take into account the fact that the sunna-shiaa wars/hatred is as old as islam, and the fact that alQaiida is operating in irak, and the fact that talibani/alQaiida/wahabism is FIERCELY anti-shiaa, we can assume that this hypothesis (alQaiida) is plausible, at first glance, to 80%. the justification is easy : the fear of a masisve shiaa gvrnmt, the fear of the stabilization on the actual statu-qo (where sunna lose shiaa "petro" territory), the fear of the (re)empowerment of iran in the sunna "occupied" irak (irak have benn shiaa for 95% of it's history, and kept special ties with persian civilization before the arabist ideology took over in the 1900) BUT, there is a problem. Even for those guys, the Golden Mosqe is HIGHLY sacred. for wahhabis, it's not like bombing mekka for sure. but it's in the top 3 sacred monuments for all muslims. So, if ever the talibans wanted to "hurt" shiaa, they could have targeted other monuments, or personnalities... I don't know really for whom profits the crime ? Everyone. The only looser once again are innocent ppl. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
[ns]hello jd, bb and world crunchers :) About the aljazeerah.info : The web sites are absolutly not linked. The .info is not the arabic channel website, but a site about the arabs peninsula politics (al jazeera in arabic). Danke! [ns]BUT, there is a problem. Even for those guys, the Golden Mosqe is HIGHLY sacred. for wahhabis, it's not like bombing mekka for sure. but it's in the top 3 sacred monuments for all muslims. So, if ever the talibans wanted to "hurt" shiaa, they could have targeted other monuments, or personnalities... I don't know really for whom profits the crime ? Everyone. The only looser once again are innocent ppl.I am wondering about something, here, Herr ns. Based upon what you stated earlier, ns, my premise is: "The Golden Mosque is very sacred to all the Muslim groups operating in Iraq." We have discussed the premise that a good deal of the Islamic rhetoric is often a "convenient subterfuge" for political, nationalistic, or other goals. This fact, however, does not tell us: 1). whether this expediency is a consciously motivated decision. 2). Nor has this "convenience premise" ever made any assumption as to the legitamacy, or the intensity, of the underlying belief in Islam by those who are exploting these sentiments. What we do know is that very often a good number of ME/Islamic political/religious leaders and/or terrorists/sympathisers do consciously make the decision to "play the religion/hate card" by organizing protests and demonstrations to "propagandize" as well as to play to the Muslim Street. Clearly some 12 gunmen of ME descent blew up the shrine. It is safe to say for argument's sake that they were Muslims. This brings up 3 questions. 1). Which of the Muslim participants would have either the least religious reservations, or could most easily allow their religious sentiments to be overshadowed by other competing motives such as political control, revenge, etc. 2). Just how far over the "sacred Muslim line" have some of these ethnic groups or religious sects gone in the past? 3). For some of the players, is it possible that there really is "no religious line" that they would not, at some point, be willing to cross? ![]() |
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