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Michael Goetz
Cruncher
United States
Joined: Dec 11, 2017
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Thanks for your answers, guys. I really appreciate the insight!

And, hey, I'm not the enemy here. This conversation seems to be taking an ugly turn, and for whatever part I had in that, I apologize.

I've said it's important to attract all users, no matter what their resources. I've certainly never called anybody "dumb". Not everyone has tons of disposable income. Most people's resources and equipment are quite modest (including mine.)

Obviously, people participate for all sorts of reasons. Must of the crunching I do (and I've been doing this since the original SETI@Home beta opened in 1999) has been for projects that offer nothing more than credit. I do not need to be convinced that people will do this just to be helpful.

All I did was ask why the incentive structure was the way it is, because it seemed counter-intuitive to me. It seems to be backwards for a certain segment of people.

Your collective answer is "But it's correct for another segment, and that segment is larger."

That's a good answer, and I thank you for it.

Best wishes,
Mike

P.S. For those of you celebrating tomorrow, Happy New Year!
[Dec 30, 2017 10:34:15 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sgt.Joe
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USA
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

This has been a pretty nice discussion all in all. I am one of those people who embrace the idea of "citizen science" because I do not have the expertise to be a researcher. However I am intensely interested in seeing that the basic research is done so it can be built upon by others. I am also interested in the humanitarian aspects of this research, which probably would not get done if not for projects such as this.
I started with a single P4 and gradually acquired various other systems for little or nothing, gradually replacing the least efficient with more efficient machines as they became available. A couple of members (brinktastee and nanoprobe) were kind enough to supply me with some surplus hard drives they had so I could put more machines to work and replace hard drives which died. The limiting factor now is how much I want to spend on electricity and to not overload a circuit.
Thus, all of the various metrics ( points, results, time, and badges) are not the reasons I participate, but they do allow me to attempt to tailor the various projects to the most appropriate machine.
Your points are interesting as is the discussion. Whatever your motivation, thanks for contributing. Crunch on.
Cheers
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Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers*
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OldChap
Veteran Cruncher
UK
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Do badges interest me? Yes
Do points interest me? Yes
Do results interest me? They haven't yet at least not as a metric

I am sure it would be great if somehow there was a perfect "scoring system" that showed pure effort

Whilst optimising my rigs to improve the above statistics but within the constraints of what is normally < 1500kWh then I guess that over the years I have managed to contribute a fair bit.

I can probably keep going for 5 years before I have to put it on the back burner purely for financial reasons.

Sgt Joe sums it up pretty well so... Yes, the bottom line is that the research gets done
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Jozef J
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smile Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

blushing
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Jozef J at Dec 31, 2017 3:45:49 PM]
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Former Member
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Joined: May 22, 2018
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Sligtly off topic:
Jozef J, I never noticed Cuba was missing - well, it was there when I visited in February biggrin
Added: Internet access was somewhat complicated on Cuba and not common for every man
... nor North Korea
Where do you come from yourself, Jozef J?

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Dec 31, 2017 7:41:07 AM]
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KLiK
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Croatia
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Well, like many people here, I've also been here long. Also I'm not here for a quick change to NEW hardware, as it has to be shown proven for WCG.

I used to run at my home:
- laptops Lenovo T60, T61 & 2x Dell...all dual cores!
- dual-P2 system with only 2x 533MHz...belive me or not, it was great till they killed WinXP! & still I'm selling replacement board on eBAY, mine original one is MODDED.
- old P3 Tualatin, which was also great for 2nd computer. That board was sold somewhere in Singapore for $100 with RAM & CPU, as it was one of the proved stable boards for factory machines PCs. biggrin

From there I've moved some generations ahead to running:
- all thos laptops, except T60 - which I have to service these days.
- Android device that was given to my on a work, but I quickly replaced it with iPhone
- 2x Q9400S on Ubuntu, which I run to spend less electricity
- 1x X3210 as a main computer, from which I write to you. Strangely, but Win10 works on Xeons, even on unsupported families of CPUs.
- 1x X3360 as 2nd computer, as the Q9550S will not boot on Win10.

Pretty soon I'm going to make an investment from Gridcoins, the ones people laughed here about, to some used workstation which should have at least 12 threads or more. It will not be the newest one, as the new ones cost about 4.000€. This will be the 500€ ones, that will do the job well.

Also, I'm using my GPUs on SETi@home, as GPU grid is not viable for my list of graphics:
- 2x GT 730, as one is one of the fastest on PCI x8 extension slot
- 1x GT 1030, as I haven't programmed the Ubuntu to watch temps, so I opted for a slower, low power graphics.
- 1x GTX 1050Ti for my 2nd computer, which is only to play Mass Effect Andromeda, from time to time.

So, why would anyone use new computer now? They spend less energy?
NO, they don't. Maybe if you don't run WCG on them, but they do spend about 15-20W per core when pushed.
It's good for me?
How? Energy consumption is the same. My computer works just fine. Writing to you even with SETi@home running graphics. No problems in slow-response. When It gets slow, I'll replace it!
It's good for economy?
Well, yes. But what do I have from economy? I'm not paid by either manufacturer of hardware or software. So why change?

It's going to continue to run 24/7, as long as RAM, CPU & MBO will hold. And all my RAM has a life-time warranty!
cool
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oldies:UDgrid.org & PS3 Life@home


non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia
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wolfman1360
Senior Cruncher
Canada
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

I completely agreed with widdershins statement.
On my side, I do replace hardware only than the previous hardware becomes out of life, and it takes long because I use to maintain and to clean my hosts.
For example, here are my current machines:
  • Phenom II x6, 2010'10 (replacement of a P4)
  • Phenom II x6, 2011'01 (new)
  • Athlon II x4, 2011'03 (replacement of a P3)
  • Athlon II x4, 2011'09 (new for business project reasons)
  • i7 4770K, 2014'05 (replacement of a died Q9800)
  • i7 7770K, 2016'03 (replacement of a died Q6600)

From time to time, one of the Athlon II x4 experiences some troubles (invalid results) and it is the next one on the list to be replaced (probably with a Ryzen 7 1700).

However, I would really appreciate that, within WCG, the projects would grant credits equally, since there is some huge differences between the projects and I am still not sure what the real causes are:
  • inappropriate "optimisation" of the science
  • inadequate calculation of the effective contribution.

Such inconsistencies are annoying.
Cheers,
Yves


Out of curiosity!
The Phenom II x6 I'm curious about. I have a Phenom II x4 965B. I think I can upgrade it to a II x6 - looking at the 1055T or 1075T. Per work unit, will I notice a big difference between the two?

I say both crunch for different reasons - and nothing wrong with that. I just feel so left in the dust when everyone in a project upgrades every 6 months to a year and I don't keep up as far as points go. I do what I can right now.
Have a few i5 and i7 6th gen ULV laptops, i5 sandy bridge macbook pro, ryzen 1800X, and various other processors - intel Atom processors, amd neo etc. Not the best, but also do what I need them to do. Not a lot of desktops here, so that's is also a contributing factor as I don't have a lot of room in this place.
ANyway I definitely did not mean to make this into a debate. Everyone has different reasons - this is just mine.
Crunch on and all that.
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Crunching for the betterment of human kind and the canines who will always be our best friends.
AWOU!
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