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Coleslaw
Veteran Cruncher
USA
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Michael Goetz, some people also just crunch to a milestone and quit or move on. I for example have a goal for a minimum of 1 million BOINC points at each BOINC project. I also tend to be a go to source for my team mates and utilize that goal to gather information for helping the others. However, there are and have been other projects to use run time for badges. Currently, WUProp does it. In the past OProject had the ALX application which was based on run time. WCG also has a badge based on total number of active recruits you bring to the project. Other projects even give badges based on the results you find like Amicable Numbers. Then you have CSG that not only has point badges but also badges for classifying videos and tweets that don't result into points.

I like that WCG is different. I also don't take my rigs off of here because they score better points at a project like PrimeGrid. I move them for other goals like challenges or stress testing or learning. However, I always give WCG time on my systems. I also don't upgrade to the top of the line systems often like some of the others you speak of. It is a huge waste of money for a small return like points. Many people still run older systems because they are good enough. And that is the majority of the DC'ers out there. So, the people you are "encouraging" to upgrade may be bringing you a wealth of free resources, but they are also the minority of DC'ers. I have actually pulled rigs off of PrimeGrid and thus reducing the results they get because they wouldn't complete in time for the challenges. Once the badges get to a certain level those rigs have no reason to keep running since it takes too long to bump up to the next one. However, those slower weaker rigs contribute just fine here. and are appreciated by the project which is proven by the badge crediting.
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[Dec 16, 2017 2:14:50 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
keithhenry
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Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Michael, as you can see from the posts in this thread, the small percentage of us who are active in the forums here are a diverse group. We have lots of different reasons and motivations for crunching at WCG. Also, the badges we have now differ from what we have had in the past. In fact, in the early years, WCG didn't even have badges. Initially, we only had gold, silver and bronze recognizing up to just 90 days. Ruby, emerald and sapphire were added later to cover up to two years. The diamond level were the last added covering up to 100 years. Even with that, I've see a few posts asking for levels beyond that. As an administrator, I think what you want to keep in mind is trying to appeal to a very diverse population of potential crunchers and have a diverse system of recognition that is adaptable and expandable over time.
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[Dec 16, 2017 5:34:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

I don't know. I think if anything there is incentive to put as many threads as possible on WCG projects including devices without much computing power. Running tasks on slower devices might otherwise be seen as not worth the effort. Every thread is potential one day's work. The more threads, the faster the progression. I came to WCG because I was hoping to participate in some way in medical research particularly cancer. I wasn't even aware of the badges for quite a while. I think it's great that people without the best computers out there can still get a little recognition in the form of a badge for contributing to these projects.
[Dec 16, 2017 9:21:49 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
branjo
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Slovakia
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Dear Mr. goetz,

If you go a bit to the past when DC has started, you will, probably, find out that WCG has invented the badges.

Do you still need an answer to your questions/comcerns? Really?

Have a really great time with your project,

Branjo
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Crunching@Home since January 13 2000. Shrubbing@Home since January 5 2006

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[Edit 2 times, last edit by branjo at Dec 16, 2017 11:21:59 PM]
[Dec 16, 2017 11:19:27 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
gb009761
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Scotland
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

There is yet another aspect of basing badges on CPU time - as, for me, who's wishing to contribute my resources equally across all the projects, can do so - as 'Results Returned' or 'Points Generated' can vary between projects.

Case in point - see below for a snapshot of my results. Now, initially when I first started out, my goal was 90 days across all projects - although that's been increased as/when my resources have improved (now, 2 years/project - although that'll soon need revising as that goal is within reach).
Project				Points		Results		Total 
Generated Returned Run Time
(y:d:h:m:s)

OpenZika 2,021,366 5,382 2:000:02:20:30
Help Stop TB 2,104,462 1,175 2:000:02:25:54
FightAIDS@Home - Phase 2 2,604,660 1,058 2:000:10:18:21
Outsmart Ebola Together 2,208,709 7,585 2:000:00:18:15
Mapping Cancer Markers 2,410,141 3,543 2:000:03:53:43
FightAIDS@Home 913,008 1,753 2:000:04:13:24
Uncovering Genome Mysteries 2,440,863 3,814 2:000:02:35:43
Help Fight Childhood Cancer 1,950,518 2,633 2:000:04:43:48
Help Conquer Cancer 2,073,940 6,117 2:000:01:05:55

Striving for 2 years – but cut short
The Clean Energy Proj – Ph 2 1,741,964 1,508 1:224:04:51:18
Human Proteome Folding - Ph 2 881,975 1,466 1:104:19:00:53
Human Proteome Folding 218,269 590 1:030:12:24:14

1 Year
Computing for Clean Water 606,168 1,629 1:000:05:36:15
Discovering Dengue - Phase 2 933,978 2,319 1:000:02:03:07
Help Cure Musc Dyst - Phase 2 1,040,602 1,960 1:000:03:19:59

Striving for 1 year – but cut short
Say No to Schistosoma 433,725 2,037 0:204:16:05:10
GO Fight Against Malaria 602,663 801 0:245:03:52:26
Drug Search for Leishmaniasis 583,114 605 0:270:02:56:17

½ Year
Computing for Sustainable Water 244,758 1,830 0:180:08:33:23

90 Days
Influenza Antiviral Drug Search 203,761 343 0:090:03:27:32
The Clean Energy Project 196,195 216 0:090:10:53:31
Nutritious Rice for the World 170,829 237 0:090:18:12:29
Discovering Dengue Drugs 197,201 425 0:090:18:19:12
So, take FightAIDS@Home vs. FightAIDS@Home - Phase 2 as an example. The former has generated 913,008 points by crunching through 1,753 WU's, whilst the latter has generated 2,604,660 points on 1,058 WU's - yet, there's just over 6 hrs difference in contribution between the two. Hence, as far as I'm concerned, my resources have contributed equally to both projects. Likewise, to the other 7 projects (soon to be 9) that'll have reached 2 years contribution.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by gb009761 at Dec 17, 2017 3:27:18 AM]
[Dec 17, 2017 3:21:43 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
RaymondFO
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USA
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Michael,

I believe WCG encourages everyone to participate here and to recognize any contribution, regardless if you have an older or a very new and powerful computer, to be recognized their valuable contribution that may not have occurred otherwise. WCG probably recognizes that such contribution is best acknowledged for the time they put forth as a credit recognition system may not encourage smaller or less powerful crunchers to participate and achieve valid recognized goals.

I crunch here because I know WCG/IBM would not waste anyone's time and resources for a non-worthwhile sub projects that are designed to help a potential worthwhile humanitarian cause. The run time versus points issue is secondary as my resources and time is acknowledged.
[Dec 17, 2017 5:23:29 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KerSamson
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Switzerland
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

I don't know how many WCG members are also participating to other projects (it could be an interesting information).
On my side, I participate to WCG only and I use the granted points for monitoring purpose.
My concern is less "time vs. points" but much more related to the strong variability of performance indicators between the WCG sciences, since I am still not sure if there is real efficiency troubles of some sciences or only a point calculation problem.
Cheers,
Yves
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[Dec 17, 2017 9:27:23 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Croatia
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

I would think it's to allow even the smallest to get badges. No matter how much you have to donate be it 1 system (dual core 1.5 ghz) or a whole server room from a Fortune 500 company. Granted the more systems the faster your badges.

coffee
cowboy

+1

BTW, did you reveal yourself & those 101d in a day? cool
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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia
[Dec 17, 2017 10:47:09 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
PecosRiverM
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The Great State of Texas
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?


BTW, did you reveal yourself & those 101d in a day? cool

laughing I only wish for more $$ so I could expand my small farm.

All mine are in my 10 x 18 man cave.

coffee
cowboy
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[Dec 18, 2017 3:07:31 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Why are badges based on time rather than work done?

Ever given vaccination a thought, PecosRiverM idea
coffee coffee
[Dec 18, 2017 3:15:50 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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