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Former Member
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Off-line crunching

No hijacking was intended SekeRob*, Sir!

I'm learning by doing and have another Android question:
Went for a walk in the woods thinking the WUs would hum merrily in my pocket as long as they could feed from the battery.
Alas! Embarrassingly, Denmark's mobile phone/data coverage is far from perfect, so after a while the WUs suspended themselves because they had lost their internet connection. And these WU take a l-o-n-g time to crunch.

Is there a setting where the crunching continues in spite of a temporary break of the internet connection?

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Halo Jones
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Re: Off-line crunching

The reason for crunching to stop is not the lack of internet connection (if the device already has some workunits downloaded for crunching). Connection is needed only when transferring completed workunits back and to get new workunits to crunch. Boinc can crunch offline with any device.

Please make sure from Boinc settings you have allowed battery for being a power source for crunching, this setting is OFF by default, and marked red to avoid accidental selection. Beware of high battery drain when crunching with only battery power. If crunching has stopped for any reason, Boinc should display a light blue box at the bottom of the screen explaining why it does not crunch. If it says "No wifi..." it means all workunits has been completed and Boinc needs internet connection only for getting more workunits.
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Re: Off-line crunching

The reason for crunching to stop is not the lack of internet connection (if the device already has some workunits downloaded for crunching).
The device was chewing on seven at the time, and there were plenty of WUs available besides.

Connection is needed only when transferring completed workunits back and to get new workunits to crunch. Boinc can crunch offline with any device.
That's what I thought. In this case no WU was ready for upload.

Please make sure from Boinc settings you have allowed battery for being a power source for crunching, this setting is OFF by default, and marked red to avoid accidental selection.
Yes, I noticed that setting early on and changed it to allow running on all available power sources, and put the battery limit at 20%.

Beware of high battery drain when crunching with only battery power.
Yes, I have noticed, but it will suffice for almost 2 hours even as I listen to audio-books as well.

If crunching has stopped for any reason, Boinc should display a light blue box at the bottom of the screen explaining why it does not crunch.
I didn’t notice any light blue box, but will specifically look for it now you have brought it to my attention, should it happen again.

If it says "No wifi..." it means all workunits has been completed and Boinc needs internet connection only for getting more workunits.
That is understandable and what I would expect it to do.

Thank you very much for taking time out going through this with me, Halo Jones, even though it did not give the solution.
Yet.
I shall pay attention to any unwarranted stopping and possible light blue box and return with whatever findings may arise.
Twice you helped, Halo Jones, two roses it will be - soon it will be an entire bouquet rose rosefor my favorite teacher.

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Halo Jones
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Re: Off-line crunching

You're welcome, and thank you for the roses! :) I'm afraid I'm running out of solutions. Could it be that the screen had been activated just by accident and "suspend" button being hit while phone was in the pocket? Also if the processor usage by other softwere rises above certain threshold (defined at settings page) the crunching will be suspended, but only temporarily. Please let me know if the problem reoccurs.
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Re: Off-line crunching

The roses are well deserved. You have a knack for explaining so that I understand smile

I don't think any of the things you mentioned happened, but, you know, when something new happens, you tend to get baffled. If it happens once more, you are more ready to notice what the circumstances are. And that's what I will do, and if it happens again, I shall certainly be back and tell you, Halo Jones coffee coffee

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Re: Off-line crunching

It occurred to me after having had the issue churning on the backburner while sleeping that heat was the only parameter we did not touch, Halo Jones, so I decided to repeat yesterday's walk in the wood as well as possible.

1. Having used my phone as a GPS on a fairly warm dashboard, gave me the ligth blue sign at the beginning of my 4 mile hike:
"Waiting for battery to cool" (The setting is 40 degrees Celcius which translates into 104 F - the default).
This might have been the issue yesterday when the hiking weather was considerably warmer than today.
Only I did not notice any sign.
Also, I phrased it "the WUs suspended themselves". "Suspended" is not the correct word. I just noticed that the time counters (when unfolding the WUs) didn't run. No mention of "suspended".
2. WUs were completed in an internet connection void area, and they patiently waited for a signal to come through for upload and reporting and new ones started.
3. Staring so much at the screen provoked the light blue sign, now saying: "Computing will resume when the battery level rises above 20%".

I now question the wisdom of crunching on seven cores (out of eight). They seem to run very slow, but I'm not that experienced. What is good practice?
Default was set at four.
Maybe when winter comes I can fire up more that four - then I can skip the gloves

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Halo Jones
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Re: Off-line crunching

The time counters may stop running without actual suspending happening (and no blue box appearing) if Boinc needs to run some other workunits with high priority mode due approaching deadlines. The battery heat problem also sounds like a possible explanation for the interruption you experienced earlier (but it should also trigger the blue box to appear).

If the CPU gets too hot it will automatically limit its calculation speed (MHz) to cool down which slows down crunching too. This feature is programmed into microchips themselves and it does not trigger any warning or notification on device's screen, so people don't usually even know it's happening. While crunching the CPU gets easily overheated if the screen is on for some time, then later the battery may get overheated too.

I'm sorry I don't have any experience of good practice crunching on battery power. My offline devices crunch only indoors and they have constantly plugged in power. They have been automated to have few minutes of wifi connection every day to perform workunit transfers at morning and late at evening, so they are not actually outside of the wifi coverage. I only occasionally check they are working as planned and do not get overheated. Small application is showing battery temperature and actual processor speed. I also periodically dig out the battery too see it is in good shape and even measure it with micrometer gauge and record any bulging it may have formed.

I hope someone can give you more information, or you can just make few tests running on fewer cores or allowing less CPU computing time for crunching by using CPU limitations available on settings page of the Boinc manager. With desktop and laptop computers I have had the best results against overheating by limiting CPU time and still crunching with all available cores, but I don't know if this applies to mobile devices too.
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Re: Off-line crunching

Halo Jones, thank you for taking time out of no less than Labor Day to help me graduate from my Android 101 class.

I’ll settle for the instance where Boinc stops counting because some other task needs attention, even though I don’t think I had any high priority WUs at the time. Perhaps other business could ”steal” power as well: checking the news apps or something?

Your crunching practice seems very considerate with a high degree of commitment. I can only dream of being able to understand how to check on limiting CPU time and such. My laptop runs somewhat warmer than before I downloaded BOINC. The fan runs permanently, and I feel some warmth (not really heat) underneath the keyboard. I like your checking of any bulging of the batteries in particular. I would like to do that, but my phone battery is sealed in, so I cannot get access. You need a hair dryer to separate the shell …. Have you found any miniscule deformities with your tool?

Your information is very helpful, because it outlines the logic of it all and how thought-through it actually is. The next time I notice something which looks strange at first glance, I shall leaf through your lessons. Also, if I happen upon further irregularities, I hope I may ask you more questions. For the next three weeks I shall not be able to practice smartphone crunching, because I’m going overseas, but upon my return, I’ll study on.
[I heard this almost unbelievable fact: a smartphone has the computing power of all the computers combined in the Mission Control Center in Houston at the time of the Moon Landing]

So far, I have been convinced you were a teacher. My current idea is you are a teacher at an engineering school of some kind. The micrometer gauge pointed me in that direction. Not standard tool box gear.

And of course I visited the florist
- thank you, Halo Jones


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Halo Jones
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Re: Off-line crunching

I'm glad I could help, and many thanks for the beautiful flower bouquet, which I share with every kind and helpful people on these forums, and with the wonderful crunchers worldwide! So pick your's and smile! :)

You are always welcome to ask questions and share opinions, I guess that's the purpose of these forums... :)

I have detected only minimal bulging on batteries so far, aroud 0.10 to 0.30mm in the middle, but I have seen an extreme case where the swollen battery actually popped off my friend's phone's back cover and the battery looked more like a pillow. Such bad batteries must NOT be used at all and properly disposed off immediately.

I think someone really should compile a comprehensive collection of frequently asked questions for Android crunchers. (I'm happy to share my knowledge if needed).

A year ago when I started crunching with Android devices (so I'm still learning all the time...) I didn't know absolutely anything about them, I didn't own any such device. WCG's FAQ told you need an Android device with ARM processor to crunch, and so I searched for hours for such devices. I found only Snapdragon, Cortex, MediaTek or Whatever processors but no mention of ARM. How difficult, I thought. Then I learned that ARM isn't a processor name or manufacturer at all but a processor type, and all of those I had found were actually ARM processors. I thought WCG did give a bit misleading or inadequate information for the beginners, and there are several questions left unanswared on the subject, answears scattered aroud the internet as tiny bits of information, not always so useful.

Well, yes I feel certain commitment on crunching, and helping others, whatever species they may represent. It is a duty and it would be passive violence to deny help from a being who really needs it.
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Re: Off-line crunching


You are always welcome to ask questions and share opinions, I guess that's the purpose of these forums... :)

Thank you, and yes.
However, me being a chatty type may upset the more factual types …. I shall try to stick to the subject here, and take my chat to the Base Camp Team thread.

... an extreme case where the swollen battery actually popped off my friend's phone's back cover and the battery looked more like a pillow ....

shock How could that happen if everything is programmed to stay below a certain temperature? Was it one of the phones whose batteries caught fire and were prohibited from flying?
I think someone really should compile a comprehensive collection of frequently asked questions for Android crunchers. (I'm happy to share my knowledge if needed).

That’s a splendid idea. I think you should open a thread where you suggest this ”out in the open”. All kinds of support people and the management, I think, read these things.
A year ago when I started crunching with Android devices (so I'm still learning all the time...) I didn't know absolutely anything about them, I didn't own any such device.

Until a few weeks ago, I didn’t even know these ”devices” as you call them could crunch. And now I have dug out the predecessor to my current one and tried to start it. It had a full battery but no valid SIM-card nor subscription, so I couldn't go beyond the log-in screen, but I’ll look into that when I return from a planned trip. Perhaps you could give me a hint as to what is needed, as I only want it to run WUs (I do have wi-fi in my home) so I have some knowledge before I approach my ISP/phone company. It will be hard enough to explain what I want in the first place, so the more ammo the better.

Hey, your attitude fits your name perfectly angel
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