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toss
Senior Cruncher
New Zealand
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

......., but we crunchers would be able to choose which projects we want to donate our computing resources to..


Announcement

WCG have finally conceded.

From this moment on we all have been granted full rights of self determination and will henceforth without any restriction of any kind be permitted to choose which projects we each contribute to.

Now you may celebrate your glorious victory, make your selections excluding any projects for which you hold any doubt, and we can all lay this matter to rest. Forever.

Toss
(Not an Anglo - who has lived in 4 countries only half of which were english speaking)
[Oct 9, 2015 9:41:15 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC


WoW, interesting chart you have: http://boincstats.com/en/stats/-1/user/detail/27763/charts
so using some school or university computer you are!

bad have u been!
cool


p.s. Also, you are somewhere in Minnesota! wink


Sorry Klik, they are all my own and I pay for all the electricity. And Yes, Minnesota is in my profile.
Also,I am done with this thread.
Cheers

it's just strange that your profile has kicked in so much data after 12th of Sep...
cool

You seem to think that no one other than yourself is aware of the dangers of conflicts of interest in science. In fact, you're on the trailing end of that curve. For example - http://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/rcr/rcr_conflicts/foundation/#1. In particular, point 2.4 ff.

However you are not claiming that commercial interests cause any bias in terms of the research done. Your claim is that some commercial interests may get results sooner than the public at large. That barely counts as a conflict given the fact that all research is by definition, at least in the context of WCG, public domain. And as I've already tried to explain, anyone who tries to patent something based on work done at WCG would be unable to do so without contributing some sort of added value.

If you did want to raise more serious objections however, those are already being dealt with as indicated in the link above.

As I've said before, it is not the place of a facilitator like WCG to dictate how research should be done. You may not want to accept this fact but your acceptance or lack of same is irrelevant. WCG understands this fact and accepts it - as does virtually everyone else here.

So your choice is really a binary one.

First of all, any computational chemistry project is going to have exabytes of data that will be generated as a result of their research - especially if it rivals what WCG can do. So if they try to patent a molecule based on their own research, they will have to be able to document the process behind that. The same is true of any combinatorial chemistry projects. You have to try many thousands of compounds to find just a few that might have a therapeutic application. So again, if that is the claim, there will be ample documentation for it.

So any company that claims that they just happened to "stumble upon" a compound that is the same as one found by WCG will need to back up that claim with actual evidence. No one is going to just be able to say 'oh, we found that first but we're not going to give you any proof of that fact.

I don't know if you read any of the document that I linked to, but in the US, we have a law passed in 1980, the Bayh-Dole act, which specifically allows academic institutions to commercialize discoveries made with govt money. So the mere fact that WCG requires that all data be made public domain puts them light years ahead of what standard industry practice is.

As for whitelisting individual researchers, that would go far beyond what accepted practice is.

As I've said before, as a facilitator, WCG is not and should not be in the business of vetting researchers. It should and I believe does vet research institutions, but any review that is more granular needs to be left to the people in the best position to understand how changes in the rules will affect the process of scientific discovery.

If you read that link I posted, you will see some of the unforeseen consequences of the Bayh-Dole act and how those have been dealt with as well as the many open questions that remain. But again, that is not a job for WCG. Their connection to the research and its uses is just too attenuated to justify that sort of interference.


if that was true, than this wouldn't be such a long struggle: http://www.breastcancer.org/research-news/asc...enetic-testing-guidelines

but it was...& university funded a research!
while some company wanted 2 make extra profit from d human natural occurring genes...
wink
----------------------------------------
oldies:UDgrid.org & PS3 Life@home


non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by KLiK at Oct 9, 2015 12:02:05 PM]
[Oct 9, 2015 11:50:58 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jhindo
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

Dear Members,

This discussion has gotten out of hand. We welcome suggestions and comments from our valued volunteers and encourage a healthy dialogue about a variety of topics. But lack of consensus on an issue does not justify the tone of this conversation lately. Several comments in this thread are insulting and personally attacking individual volunteers. This violates several of our forum rules , in particular:

  • Please do not start Flame Wars in the Forums, as this will not be tolerated
  • Please do not be rude to other members nor retaliate if a member is rude to you

This, we will not tolerate. Please consider this a final warning. Unless everyone can be civil and polite to each other, you leave us no choice but to close and remove this entire thread.

Thank you,
jhindo
[Oct 9, 2015 3:14:57 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

I'm almost afraid to write another comment after WCG just threatened to delete the whole thread, instead of just locking it and thereby preventing any more comments. This is great -- if you are WCG or one of the opponents to more transparency, which in this case happens to be the same.

So now what? The opponents to more transparency have already stated they hoped this would happen. All they have to do now is to be rude. I started the thread but its fate seems to be in the hands of my opponents.
[Oct 9, 2015 9:43:31 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

I'm not sure it's possible to lock threads with this forum software. The only locked threads I can recall ever seeing are announcement threads that don't have any replies. If anyone knows of a counter-example, pls let me know.
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[Oct 9, 2015 10:01:12 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

As a consequence of WCG's warning, I'm from now on not going to respond to comments made by anybody in this thread. I'll continue to post comments, but only as edits to my first comment. I wont defend them and they wont be answers to comments made by others. These new comments should be considered more like personal statements. I simply can't afford to take the risk. I know this means I'll have to take verbal beatings on a regular basis, and in silence, but that's something I'll just have to accept.

I'm now also saving all the pages, just in case they decide to delete everything.
[Oct 9, 2015 10:52:18 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
theodolite
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

This, we will not tolerate. Please consider this a final warning. Unless everyone can be civil and polite to each other, you leave us no choice but to close and remove this entire thread
so after postings containing potentially defamatory and libelous statements WCG throws down a WARNING to behave.

This thread isn't about being civil to each other. What civility is there is accusing scientists of breaching their agreements. What civility is there in accusing WCG of collaborating with for-profit research? How can any measure of subsequent civility undo such a heinous accusation?

I have requested the OP either present proof or desist from making subsequent false accusations. WCG backs me up with a warning to be civil? Where is your humanity? Either the accusations can be proven or they should be treated as libelous. How can WCG be associated with the **ll**** in this thread?

Freedom of speech doesn't allow you shout FIRE in a crowded movie house, so don't go there. You're talking to me like I'm told to stand in the corner after being wrongly accused of burning down a church, then warning me not to act out. There is no happiness here, for anyone.
[Oct 10, 2015 8:05:17 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

[Oct 12, 2015 8:37:41 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

Techs & admins,

maybe you should include in your next contracts with "all pharmaceutical companies & scientists included" a clause that someone like Martin Shkreli can't be entitled to a drug patent!

not to include "Shkeli scheme & similar people" in a contract, would seriously jeopardize all our efforts in finding cures for less fortunate people! Scientists with science, techs & admins with all servers...& us with our donations of CPU power & electricity!

just had to add this to the list, when I saw this news:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/ameri...orm-of-drug-a6770661.html
sad
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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia
[Dec 13, 2015 7:16:23 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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