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cjslman
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

TBMS... I read your re-formatted first post and it makes sense what you state (a lot easier to read than 5 pages of posts). There is something that I do not agree with which is the following:
Instead WCG is highlighting all the researchers' nonprofit activities while intentionally ignoring their for-profit activities.
You haven't shown any evidence or proof of that statement. It paints WCG as part of a corrupt process and would/could imply that WCG is enabling bad business/scientific practices. You (and everybody that has posted in this thread) have received an answer from the support team:
Rest assured this thread is being watched, and when the entire support team isn't heads down working on launching a new phase of a project (the reason most members are here), we will respond to some of the comments posted in this thread.
I think we should wait for that response before passing judgement.

CJSL

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[Oct 1, 2015 11:18:53 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

... It paints WCG as part of a corrupt process and would/could imply that WCG is enabling bad business/scientific practices. You (and everybody that has posted in this thread) ....

well...even though some people say that TBMS & me are doing something wrong here, by listing affiliations & possible liabilities in a business/scientific practices...

1. we do care about WCG, or we wouldn't be here!
2. we do this, so that some bad business/scientific practices - if there are any - are stopped...it wouldn't be nice to have WCG investigated by FTC & their collaboration with some bad business/scientific practices in some corporations (after VWgate, just came a SAMSUNGgate, etc.)...'cause even though it didn't receive any compensation from d researchers/scientists, WCG did enable that bad business/scientific practices by lack of transparency & protection in statements...
3. we've been suggesting for WCG to be more transparent & protects a company (WCG & IBM) & us as a crunchers from bad business/scientific practices...
that suggestion is just one in a line of suggestions that some of us have brought to WCG - check forum Suggestions/Feedback!
4. we all spend money on electricity & these new processors are not what they used to be...they don't do a 100% of speed anymore & be dormant...no, they power down to 30% of speed & spend less & less power for only writing in Word or browsing internet...so keeping it up to 100% is a big power drain, 'cause modern processors often spend as much as an old wolfram light bulbs (60-150Wh)!!!
those kWh we pay on average 0,2€/h...so we're interested in our donations & where the money/CPU power/results go to!

thank u 4 understanding!
cool
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[Oct 2, 2015 8:40:30 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
noderaser
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

I think we should wait for that response before passing judgement.

I wouldn't hold your breath...
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[Oct 5, 2015 1:27:05 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jhindo
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

I'd like to clarify a few things and (hopefully) set a few things to rest. And I apologize for not chiming in sooner - we've been heads down working towards last week's launch of the second phase of FightAIDS@Home.

First, we evaluate every research project proposal on many criteria including to validate the research approach being proposed; to confirm that the research organization is indeed public or non profit; etc. This evaluation process includes external reviews by other scientists in the field. Once a proposal is approved, we then put in place a contractual agreement with the research organization which stipulates, amongst other things, that the data being generated on World Community Grid must be made publicly available, free of charge, to spread the benefits to the wider scientific community. Researchers typically meet that requirement once they publish their findings after the end of the project on World Community Grid. In the case of CEP, the Harvard team decided to start publishing the data during the lifespan of the project on World Community Grid following the analysis of the first 2 million compounds screened on World Community Grid. They are now analyzing the next large set of screened compounds and plan on releasing more data into their online database once their findings are published.

It's important to clarify, that our requirement for researchers to release the data is specific to the raw data sent back by World Community Grid volunteers, and not to any future work performed on or insight derived from that data.

Second, we don't deny nor shy away from the fact that research teams have (often well established) relationships with commercial and for-profit entities. That's the nature and reality of research. In a climate of declining government funding for scientific research, these partnerships are often a necessity. We meet with each of the research teams on a regular basis where they often discuss the work they're doing with other groups and organizations. We often encourage them to include such details when they provide project updates, not just for transparency's sake but so that our volunteers can understand the full context and complexity of the research process. So there is no hidden agenda nor conspiracy by us nor our research partners to hide any such information from our volunteers.

Finally, I'd like to remind everyone that this is a space for discussing and sharing ideas. You don't have to like what other people are saying, and it's OK to disagree, but there's no need to insult each other. Please keep it civil!
[Oct 5, 2015 8:20:52 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
cjslman
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

I think we should wait for that response before passing judgement.

I wouldn't hold your breath...
It's interesting to note the confidence that there is in WCG even after there was a official statement indicating that there would be a response to the comments in this thread. sad

CJSL

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[Oct 5, 2015 11:16:03 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

While I'm sure everyone appreciates the response from WCG, if I might play devil's advocate for a moment, I don't know that it addresses the concerns raised by klik and tbms.

If I've understood their argument to date, they're not suggesting that research groups using WCG NOT have commercial associations. I believe their contention was that these relationships be disclosed to the members of WCG.

While I don't agree with that position, it seems to me that if WCG is going to take the time to respond, they should respond to the specific issue being raised rather than issues that I believe have already been settled.
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[Oct 6, 2015 2:46:01 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

I'd like to clarify a few things and (hopefully) set a few things to rest. And I apologize for not chiming in sooner - we've been heads down working towards last week's launch of the second phase of FightAIDS@Home.

First, we evaluate every research project proposal on many criteria including to validate the research approach being proposed; to confirm that the research organization is indeed public or non profit; etc. This evaluation process includes external reviews by other scientists in the field. Once a proposal is approved, we then put in place a contractual agreement with the research organization which stipulates, amongst other things, that the data being generated on World Community Grid must be made publicly available, free of charge, to spread the benefits to the wider scientific community. Researchers typically meet that requirement once they publish their findings after the end of the project on World Community Grid. In the case of CEP, the Harvard team decided to start publishing the data during the lifespan of the project on World Community Grid following the analysis of the first 2 million compounds screened on World Community Grid. They are now analyzing the next large set of screened compounds and plan on releasing more data into their online database once their findings are published.

It's important to clarify, that our requirement for researchers to release the data is specific to the raw data sent back by World Community Grid volunteers, and not to any future work performed on or insight derived from that data.

Second, we don't deny nor shy away from the fact that research teams have (often well established) relationships with commercial and for-profit entities. That's the nature and reality of research. In a climate of declining government funding for scientific research, these partnerships are often a necessity. We meet with each of the research teams on a regular basis where they often discuss the work they're doing with other groups and organizations. We often encourage them to include such details when they provide project updates, not just for transparency's sake but so that our volunteers can understand the full context and complexity of the research process. So there is no hidden agenda nor conspiracy by us nor our research partners to hide any such information from our volunteers.

Finally, I'd like to remind everyone that this is a space for discussing and sharing ideas. You don't have to like what other people are saying, and it's OK to disagree, but there's no need to insult each other. Please keep it civil!

that is great to hear...u have assured us a little, but we got some more questions (as always):
ad 1. nice of WCG that ALL data collected on these research through our donations is FREE of charge & publicly made...but has a WACG got a mechanism if "by chance" some1 miss-use data for personal gain?!
ad 2. as always we just wanted to assure that drug research for example of AIDS will be cheaper by our donations in FAHV, FAHA & FAHB data...so that manufacturer can only patent a design mechanism of some cure & get paid for ONLY those rights + expenses for marketing & testing phases of drug development...
if all scientist do agree on that, we have no problem with some for-profit & commercial corps...we just feel, as same as u, that those affiliations should be made publicly listed & included in papers for 1st initialization & all amendments to that paper should be updated within some time limit after another contract has been signed with for-profit & commercial corp...

& thank you again 4 giving an answer 2 much awaited questions!
we hope to keep WCG a clean place...& our donations a worthy cause in this beautiful & grey World of ours!
cool
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by KLiK at Oct 6, 2015 12:32:30 PM]
[Oct 6, 2015 12:31:15 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

The key language in jhindo's response is as follows, particularly the bolded section:
We meet with each of the research teams on a regular basis where they often discuss the work they're doing with other groups and organizations. We often encourage them to include such details when they provide project updates, not just for transparency's sake but so that our volunteers can understand the full context and complexity of the research process.

In other words, WCG encourages researchers to disclose their associations but the obvious implication of course is that they do not require it. It's purely voluntary which I assume is not what you were looking for.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Oct 6, 2015 6:36:21 PM]
[Oct 6, 2015 6:35:07 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
jhindo
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

No, we don't have a mechanism to handle misuse of data specifically for personal gain. The researchers' obligation is to release the data to the public domain - how that data is then used, is not something we can control. The idea though is that by making it available to all, it provides a level playing field.

As to whether an HIV drug will be cheaper if it was developed out of FAAH results - no one can guarantee that. Drug development is a very long and costly process which will necessitate heavy investment to turn any promising candidates into actual drugs. What price that eventual drug would be set at is not something we can control. But again, the idea of opening up the data is to make sure that the opportunity to develop such a drug isn't restricted to a single entity which is free to set whatever price it wants. Think of it more of an open market with open competition vs a monopoly.

The other important thing to point out is that a lot of this research simply wouldn't get done without your contributions and therefore potential drug candidates would go undiscovered. e.g. in announcing their surprise findings about how water flows through nanotubes, the Clean Water team were very clear that if it wasn't for World Community Grid, they wouldn't have been able to carry out their simulations at a detailed enough level to discover this phenomenon. Similarly, for FightAIDS@Home, the Scripps team have stated that thanks to the vast amount of computing power in phase 1 they were able to expand their research way beyond the original scope - that's millions of chemical compounds that would not have been screened otherwise.
[Oct 6, 2015 8:04:31 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KLiK
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Re: WCG's ethical guidelines for volunteer DC

No, we don't have a mechanism to handle misuse of data specifically for personal gain. The researchers' obligation is to release the data to the public domain - how that data is then used, is not something we can control. The idea though is that by making it available to all, it provides a level playing field.

maybe u should have think also about those...sooner or later, some1 bad will arrive...& like in all societies, 10% of people r bad...so in your past in WCG -> 2-3 project must be rotten apples...
wink
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[Oct 6, 2015 8:42:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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