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Category: Support Forum: Suggestions / Feedback Thread: Retention of 'Long-Term' Crunchers. |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 155
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PecosRiverM
Veteran Cruncher The Great State of Texas Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Post Count: 1053 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
IMHO
----------------------------------------Some of the lost crunching power can (I think) be because, some folks were using resources at work and might have moved to another job. Also some might have dropped because of the Summer Heat. I know I used ~1,000kWh's last week alone. |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2129 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
While it's natural to try to speculate as to what might be causing these losses, I think it's a mistake to just come up with explanations that don't have any factual basis and casually dismiss them.
----------------------------------------Granted that jonnie's figures include people who likely left because of the closing of the XRP giveaway and there's no doubt that a large number of them were in the top 5000. But the fact remains that as if I sort BOINCstats by total points and look at the names then look at current points, I see a lot of familiar names with zeros in that column. So while jonnie's figures may be skewed by the giveaway, you only need to look at the user overview charts here to see that the growth in the total number of users has been increasing at a decreasing rate - http://boincstats.com/en/stats/15/project/detail/user The only exception is the period of the the XRP giveaway. If you're looking at the active user chart, I suppose that can be explained by the fact that most users are in the northern hemishpere. However even that doesn't really make much sense to me since the average user is running BOINC on their primary computer and shouldn't even be noticing the difference. So what you're really saying is that thousands of WCG'ers have been shutting down ALL of their crunchers for the summer time - even their Android phones. That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. But as has been pointed out above, the only way to really get any answers is to contact these people and send them a short questionnaire to try to find out what caused them to abandon WCG. Is it permanent or temporary. Was it something personal that WCG had no control over something about the software, website, forum or quality of support? We need to ask questions in order to get answers and honestly I don't see our crack staff here getting on that anytime soon. |
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PecosRiverM
Veteran Cruncher The Great State of Texas Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Post Count: 1053 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
So what you're really saying is that thousands of WCG'ers have been shutting down ALL of their crunchers for the summer time - even their Android phones. I said "some" not "thousands". I was just pointing out that there are many reasons someone might choose to stop crunching. New Job (or lack of with this economy), Heat, Finances, Lost interest, etc. etc... But as has been pointed out above, the only way to really get any answers is to contact these people and send them a short questionnaire to try to find out what caused them to abandon WCG. Is it permanent or temporary. Was it something personal that WCG had no control over something about the software, website, forum or quality of support? Just the point I was hoping to make. Sorry about being unclear on thought process. |
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jonnieb-uk
Ace Cruncher England Joined: Nov 30, 2011 Post Count: 6105 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Granted that jonnie's figures include people who likely left because of the closing of the XRP giveaway and there's no doubt that a large number of them were in the top 5000. To clarify: As of Apr 4 (when I last looked just as Ripple was starting to wind down from peak) only 371 of the top 5,000 users were members of the Ripple Labs Team. More importantly in the context of this discussion, of the 700 InActive users cited in my OP just 20 were/are members of Ripple Labs. |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2129 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Really? I don't really pay much attention to statistics but that seems extraordinary. How are you determining this? For example do you have a way of tracking, in bulk, the team movements of these people so for example, you know for sure that they didn't leave the Ripple team for RSC for some period of time before they stopped working on WCG?
----------------------------------------I know Free-DC tracks team movements but I hardly ever use that site and I don't recall any way that you can query it for more than one member at a time. I also remember very clearly that a very high percentage of the top producers were Ripple Labs team members, so to now hear what seems to be the implication that most of those people are still with us . . . well, it's just a little hard to believe given their financial motivation and the fact that most of them were probably supporting their high output with cloud computing resources paid for by converting XRPs to cash. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I registered with WCG in 2004 and stopped contributing for a period of time (about 3 months) to try something else. WCG got stale for me. Same 3 projects, same WU names, day after day after day for years. it's mundane. I just wanted to see something different for a while. There used to be new projects that came on about every 18 months or so that broke up the monotony. Once you reach the 10 to 50 year badges, it takes a long time to the next one. Nothing to make it interesting. I came back because it was like that just about everywhere else once the new wears off. The nature of Distributed Computing I guess.
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jonnieb-uk
Ace Cruncher England Joined: Nov 30, 2011 Post Count: 6105 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
twilyth
----------------------------------------Towards the end of March, early April I was tracking the Ripple Labs team on an almost daily basis including movements in and out of the team. You're correct in saying it requires looking at individual member records. And that's what I did - 22,500 of them. I stopped shortly after the demise of XRPs was announced partly because the computer resource needed was detracting from my own crunching. The snapshot I took of Ripple Labs team Apr 4 has details of 22,591 individual members including ~143 members who had retired from the team prior to that date. Whilst my figures might not be totally accurate, e.g. members changing user name or using chinese characters requires manual adjustment, I doubt that any errors are significant. I also noted in the Apr 4 file that in the previous days runtime production stats (Apr 3) the top 5,000 crunchers included 641 Ripple members. With regard to Para 3 of your post in perticular "the implication that most of those people are still with us . . . well, it's just a little hard to believe given their financial motivation" There's no doubt that the Ripple team's crunching has been drastically scaled down but they continue to rank either #2 or #3 in the daily production rankings. There has been no wholesale desertion to RSC. Retirements from the team total 604. 143 of them being prior to Apr 3. Maybe I'll do some work to see who in the team is doing the work but that's for another day and another thread. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by jonnieb-uk at Jul 23, 2014 12:01:27 AM] |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2129 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Thanks for clearing that up jonnie. I guess that puts an even finer point on the loss of people who have made major contributions here. But do we expect any of the staff to even acknowledge this issue? ROFLMAOBBQ.
----------------------------------------I'm really quite shocked at the retention rate of the Ripple Labs team. I was pretty much convinced that the vast majority of these people where renting cloud cpu cycles and would evaporate like the morning dew once the XRPs dried up. I guess that serves to highlight the value of speculation. I'm quite tickled to be dead wrong about that. But once again, like a fresh coat of paint over rotting wood, it only serves to mask the issue Scribe has raised. Doneske: Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the low project count. The staff's view on this is that it doesn't matter as long as there is enough work to go around. Clearly, they are once again WRONG!!! [Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Jul 23, 2014 1:05:38 AM] |
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7582 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
For what it is worth, I just looked at BoincStats and that site showed exactly 2600 individuals on Ripple Labs returning points from their latest update.
----------------------------------------Cheers
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers* |
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Byteball_730a2960
Senior Cruncher Joined: Oct 29, 2010 Post Count: 318 Status: Offline Project Badges: |
Doneske: Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the low project count. The staff's view on this is that it doesn't matter as long as there is enough work to go around. Clearly, they are once again WRONG!!! I hate seeing this over and over again (not Twilyth in particular). Correct me if I am wrong, but the WCG staff don't generate the projects, the projects need to be proposed by the scientists which means they need to go to WCG. Rather than bite the hand that feeds you, maybe we can find ways to bring more scientists to WCG? Back on topic. I don't know if people are actively leaving WCG or not. Ripple was a blip and some people actively chased the money though cloud computing etc. After that, they dropped out for electricity costs but some stayed and are in the community, which is great. However, the nature of the WCG/BOINC software is that it is an install and forget piece of software. Over the years, I've installed it on over 200 pcs all over the world and I have quite a few that have stopped producing. A small percentage are those where the owners have removed them. However, the vast majority have not removed it. Why they aren't producing, is perhaps because 1) It has just stopped working and they haven't noticed. Could be stuck WUs or something. Program error etc. 2) Internet settings changed and so no upload/download 3) They've retired the computer 4) Clean install of OS. What I am getting at is that although people will join WCG, they forget about it and when it fails, they don't notice it and fix it. We are a bunch of people who monitor WCG constantly, but I think we are in a small minority. |
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