Index | Recent Threads | Unanswered Threads | Who's Active | Guidelines | Search |
![]() |
World Community Grid Forums
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
No member browsing this thread |
Thread Status: Active Thread Type: Sticky Thread Total posts in this thread: 61
|
![]() |
Author |
|
sean0118
Cruncher Australia Joined: Feb 7, 2010 Post Count: 33 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Great news, congrats to everyone involved, including all the crunchers here at WCG!
|
||
|
ThreadRipper
Veteran Cruncher Sweden Joined: Apr 26, 2007 Post Count: 1324 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Excellent news, good work everyone - scientists, WCG techs, WCG crunchers, IBM.
----------------------------------------Now, I would just love to see a webcast for HFCC where these compounds and the significance of this breakthrough can be presented by the scientists themselves. I think that would be an awesome idea! *twink, twink* ;) ![]() Join The International Team: https://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/viewTeamInfo.do?teamId=CK9RP1BKX1 AMD TR2990WX @ PBO, 64GB Quad 3200MHz 14-17-17-17-1T, RX6900XT @ Stock AMD 3800X @ PBO AMD 2700X @ 4GHz [Edit 1 times, last edit by flodisar at Feb 21, 2014 11:51:28 PM] |
||
|
[CSF] Thomas Dupont
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Aug 25, 2013 Post Count: 685 Status: Offline |
It's an absolutely brilliant news ! What a breakthrough !
----------------------------------------![]() Not less than 7 new drugs and more than 3 million tested molecules equivalent in 55.000 years of crunch ! Awesome ! That is what the WCG project can bring of better to the Science ! Bravo to the scientists of the HFCC project, to the WCG crew and to all the 200.000 volunteers who have crunch for HFCC ! Congratz to all. |
||
|
andy_ro
Cruncher Joined: Sep 4, 2009 Post Count: 3 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
This is great news for the team working on NB cure! This makes us really feel better - that you may have contributed to helping a kid in the future getting better!
Even if our contributions are like grains of sand, when there are many grains... Thank you all for making this possible! Way to go WCG! And continue crunching! Good luck, Dr. Nakagawara and team! |
||
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I have to give a skeptical POV here:
The articles writes that the Chiba Cancer Research Center will associate with a pharmaceutical company obviously to sell a product, this is were the WCG philosophy for non-profit distributed computing for non-profit organization ends, and it becomes a lie unfortunately , the non-profit will profit for obvious reasons, they need money to make non-profit research and associate with profit organizations. Is the Chiba Center really non-profit? You obviously can't associate with a profit organization just to pay salaries and lab maintenance, you need materials to conduct research and upgrade instruments and equipment, also you need to make extensions to your lab as needed, so you need a surplus of cash to do this when needed, this sometimes can't be planed ahead. So I want to know if my contribution is just helping others make lots of money or actually making new drugs/treatments not only available but A LOT CHEAPER that they should be on conventional research, also the actual estimated price of a final product, what is going to be the actual physical product, because if pharmaceutical companies are going to max the profit as usual the WCG is a scam for good-will people and IBM a scammer and a accomplice in such scam and maybe receiving some money out of the resulting help. I demand WCG/IBM staff/personnel to explain IN DETAIL this to me or I'm not only not participating anymore, I'm going to discourage anyone asking me about WCG/IBM. |
||
|
Falconet
Master Cruncher Portugal Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Post Count: 3297 Status: Offline Project Badges: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I have to give a skeptical POV here: The articles writes that the Chiba Cancer Research Center will associate with a pharmaceutical company obviously to sell a product, this is were the WCG philosophy for non-profit distributed computing for non-profit organization ends, and it becomes a lie unfortunately , the non-profit will profit for obvious reasons, they need money to make non-profit research and associate with profit organizations. Is the Chiba Center really non-profit? You obviously can't associate with a profit organization just to pay salaries and lab maintenance, you need materials to conduct research and upgrade instruments and equipment, also you need to make extensions to your lab as needed, so you need a surplus of cash to do this when needed, this sometimes can't be planed ahead. So I want to know if my contribution is just helping others make lots of money or actually making new drugs/treatments not only available but A LOT CHEAPER that they should be on conventional research, also the actual estimated price of a final product, what is going to be the actual physical product, because if pharmaceutical companies are going to max the profit as usual the WCG is a scam for good-will people and IBM a scammer and a accomplice in such scam and maybe receiving some money out of the resulting help. I demand WCG/IBM staff/personnel to explain IN DETAIL this to me or I'm not only not participating anymore, I'm going to discourage anyone asking me about WCG/IBM. The truth is that developing a drug from the results of this or any other project of the WCG without support from a major company is close to impossible. Chiba doesn't have the necessary equipment/money. By non-profit, I believe WCG is saying that they themselves don't profit from this endeavor and that all the data is publicly available for ANYONE to use. I don't think anyone would give millions to this project without being able to sell the resulting drug(s). ![]() - AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W - AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W - AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz |
||
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Yes but the question is are we just making a job for free for the availability of drugs/cures/treatments as the sole benefit and letting pharmaceutical companies and research centers max profit?
----------------------------------------Other concern that come to mind are: [-] Who regulates the final price of the products? [-] Wouldn't those resulting products have the logo of WCG to indicate that it was also a free computing effort which made it possible therefore price subject to regulation of some kind? [-] Are World health organizations aware of this distributed effort and have given some guidelines for producing pharmaceutical companies? [-] Do Governments do something similar? because I don't think pharmaceutical companies are going to not make max profit if they can, even if it'd be the decent thing to do given that they didn't made the research nor the computing. [-] Where is the in-depth info about WCG and regulatory policy? Looks like to me that we're only "load donkeys" or "digital sweat jobs" for indifferent pharmaceutical companies and research centers THAT SEEK ONLY TO PROFIT A LOT, and make fools out of the WCG community, as companies usually do unfortunately. Some of them don't make cures but life long treatments so the sick people buy their product(s) always and have a constant cash flow, so some of them don't look to cure, but to prolong sickness, all because of more unnecessary profit. I don't see why this pharmaceutical company Chiba Center want association with it's going to do any better, what guarantees do we have? what is WCG/IBM staff is doing about it if anything? I love altruistic causes for Humanity and I love to help, but I want the effort to be such, as much as possible, I know they have to sell the product but I always thought people would have the decency to do what is right and make a compromise as we did by participating here for free. I give WCG/IBM the benefit of the doubt, that's why I'm demanding explanations. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Feb 25, 2014 11:58:01 PM] |
||
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello Saul Luizaga,
I considered several replies. My first thought was a somewhat intemperate reply - it seemed only fair. My second thought was a more scholarly study of libertarian political principles which would allow the cheap development of medical cures. There is a chapter in Jared Diamond's "Guns Germs And Steel" which explains why societies of various sizes develop different techniques that prevent members of that society from killing each other. Unfortunately, the techniques used by societies of our size preclude the development of a libertarian society. I brought up "Guns Germs And Steel" on my computer to let me find the chapter rather than walking over to my book shelf. But then I just decided on a straight answer. The planet Earth is split up into nation states that control the surface. Every nation state requires expensive paper work, studies and government licenses for permission to treat people with medicine. For our purposes, there are 3 kinds of state regimes. The first type enforces the formal requirements, despite horrendous delays and expenses. The second type also requires pecuniary emoluments to recompense the government officials for their time and trouble. This type is even more expensive. The third type only requires the money for the licenses and is cheaper. On the other hand, people in this type of state have little if any control over what is done to them. If you really want to cure people, this is the only game in town. All cures are backed by corporations or similar organizations. It's the law. Non-profit means no money goes to the people who (like us) do enough research and development to interest a corporation in a cure. We do it to help cure people. This is just my private and personal opinion. It has nothing to do with the World Community Grid. ![]() Lawrence |
||
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Yes but the question is are we just making a job for free for the availability of drugs/cures/treatments as the sole benefit and letting pharmaceutical companies and research centers max profit? Other concern that come to mind are: [-] Who regulates the final price of the products? [-] Wouldn't those resulting products have the logo of WCG to indicate that it was also a free computing effort which made it possible therefore price subject to regulation of some kind? [-] Are World health organizations aware of this distributed effort and have given some guidelines for producing pharmaceutical companies? [-] Do Governments do something similar? because I don't think pharmaceutical companies are going to not make max profit if they can, even if it'd be the decent thing to do given that they didn't made the research nor the computing. [-] Where is the in-depth info about WCG and regulatory policy? Looks like to me that we're only "load donkeys" or "digital sweat jobs" for indifferent pharmaceutical companies and research centers THAT SEEK ONLY TO PROFIT A LOT, and make fools out of the WCG community, as companies usually do unfortunately. Some of them don't make cures but life long treatments so the sick people buy their product(s) always and have a constant cash flow, so some of them don't look to cure, but to prolong sickness, all because of more unnecessary profit. I don't see why this pharmaceutical company Chiba Center want association with it's going to do any better, what guarantees do we have? what is WCG/IBM staff is doing about it if anything? I love altruistic causes for Humanity and I love to help, but I want the effort to be such, as much as possible, I know they have to sell the product but I always thought people would have the decency to do what is right and make a compromise as we did by participating here for free. I give WCG/IBM the benefit of the doubt, that's why I'm demanding explanations. WCG is providing a service to these researchers and that's where the non-profit most likely ends. I doubt the lab will convince a pharmaceutical to get on board with those kinds of ideals. The final price of the product will be regulated by the pharmaceutical. WCG will have nothing to do with the product. This publication is far away from a product, its just preliminary tests indicated that certain compounds are active against NB. The research is a minuscule part of producing a drug, therefore why should they have the bigger say in what happens to said drug and what price its charged at. Who is investing the larger chunk of money? That would be the pharmaceutical, therefore they will decide how to price the product. The sad thing is money is the reason for everything. First you have to understand that putting a drug from the board to the shelves cost around 1 billion dollars. Therefore, if the pharmaceutical company isn't able to recuperate their investment in a timely manner the drug will not be funded. You have to understand that clinical trials are incredibly expensive and long. No one else has time or money to take a concept idea from this lab and test it rigorously to determine if they would make ideal drugs. Further, governments aren't allowed to step in because each company is allowed to do as it wants as far as choosing drugs goes. This is the sad truth about our world, its not motivated by good will like you see on WCG, at the gears of this world, everything is motivated by money and if they cant money, nothing will happen. This problem is deep rooted in the core of society and will not change overnight. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Feb 26, 2014 1:47:23 AM] |
||
|
Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Hello Saul Luizaga, I considered several replies. My first thought was a somewhat intemperate reply - it seemed only fair. My second thought was a more scholarly study of libertarian political principles which would allow the cheap development of medical cures. There is a chapter in Jared Diamond's "Guns Germs And Steel" which explains why societies of various sizes develop different techniques that prevent members of that society from killing each other. Unfortunately, the techniques used by societies of our size preclude the development of a libertarian society. I brought up "Guns Germs And Steel" on my computer to let me find the chapter rather than walking over to my book shelf. But then I just decided on a straight answer. The planet Earth is split up into nation states that control the surface. Every nation state requires expensive paper work, studies and government licenses for permission to treat people with medicine. For our purposes, there are 3 kinds of state regimes. The first type enforces the formal requirements, despite horrendous delays and expenses. The second type also requires pecuniary emoluments to recompense the government officials for their time and trouble. This type is even more expensive. The third type only requires the money for the licenses and is cheaper. On the other hand, people in this type of state have little if any control over what is done to them. If you really want to cure people, this is the only game in town. All cures are backed by corporations or similar organizations. It's the law. Non-profit means no money goes to the people who (like us) do enough research and development to interest a corporation in a cure. We do it to help cure people. This is just my private and personal opinion. It has nothing to do with the World Community Grid. ![]() Lawrence **Edited due to inappropriate forum language**TKH Note: The verbiage that was removed disparaged another member, which is not allowed per our forum rules. The government models of Capitalism, Socialism and Dictatorship you exposed are monetary-based policies that eventually give up on money power, that's why my signature promotes activism over better economic systems and that's the reason war and permanent treatment and never ending diseases exist, profit, lots of it, and people not in powered are the ones paying for it, ironically we put those governments there to administrate us, anyway, perfect solutions, like Libertarianism are futile utopias that are partially won only and because money people allows it, the moment they don't we're screwed, fortunately perfect solutions would be imperfect for our imperfect existence and a perfected enough solution is enough, for now, until a better solution (Resource Based Economy or something better) comes along, yes this is the only way to help sick people, that mostly are sick because of the monetary system we live in and some people with money makes sure they stay that way, so we have to do some help, so an approximation to ideals is enough but the WCG is far from it, it's just a patch, yes things won't change overnight, they'll probably take several generations but, asking skeptical questions being reasonable and rational is the start, and reason should be answer with reason, you did, it was not extraordinary as you'd like to think, it was fair, as so, a harsh comment would have merit and got a similar response from me, which would've been pointless since it'd be just venting anger and not constructive at all. @Byuda: Yes, I understand, hence my answer above. I'll keep helping the sick people because they need it, but know this, we're being voluntarily scammed, so the sick can find a cure, IF AND ONLY IF, the pharmaceutical companies don't make it a never ending treatment as it's the profitable tendency. Also a condition for the Research Centers should be to put the WCG logo on their database, website and demand the pharmaceutical company to add it on the label of their final product(s) too, it's fair and decent. I thank you both for showing me points I didn't consider when i wrote my posts, there fore I concluded to continue helping, but I wanted to clarify money is unfortunately our way to control resources, not the reason of everything. [Edit 7 times, last edit by TKH at Mar 5, 2014 3:26:22 PM] |
||
|
|
![]() |