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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Dutch mill in the middle of Copenhagen ... we have much in common
Frantically searching for something to say ON TOPIC! <sigh of relief> Are you into solar energy in Holland/The Netherlands? OT: Do you prefer "The Netherlands" over "Holland" - I never seem to get this question answered convincingly. Holland is easier to say, I think. |
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SNURK
Veteran Cruncher The Netherlands Joined: Nov 26, 2007 Post Count: 1217 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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..Last off topic post, before handing it back to Hypernova.
----------------------------------------![]() The one and only correct name for our country is the Netherlands. Holland is only a part of the Netherlands, again devided into North-Holland, and South-Holland. It's true that the Netherlands is often mistakenly called Holland by a lot of foreigners. Holland used to be a seperate country centuries ago, that's the root of the confusion I think. Saying Holland when you mean the Netherlands is the same as saying England when you mean Great Brittain. But we, the dutch, forgive you all for it. ![]() ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by SNURK at Oct 14, 2011 9:03:14 AM] |
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Hypernova
Master Cruncher Audaces Fortuna Juvat ! Vaud - Switzerland Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Post Count: 1908 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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To me it looks like a good deal. But you mention "â¬0.31 over the grid value". This I don't get. Are there additional costs on top of the â¬1,494/year? Here is the detailed calculation. When I buy my electricity on the grid the cost is 0.17 Euro/kWhr. The cost of electricty from my solar panels stands at 0.17 + 0.XX. What is the value of 0.XX. This value is to be calculated as follows: 0.XX = "Costs for acquisition, installation, operation and maintenance of 30m2 of panels" / "Total Solar kWhr produced" The first parameter is known, is constant and stands at 3.93 Euro/m2/month or 47.2 Euro/m2/year or for 30 m2 at 1'416 Euro/year. The second parameter is the total production of my panels over a complete year. Why a year and not a month, because this allows to integrate the seasonailty of production that is very different between spring, summer, fall and winter. A full cycle is necessary. Today I have data only for a full month, that is October 2011. You can find the production statistics day per day here under. ![]() According to October data production has been in total 473 kWhr. So we can calculate the cost of the kWhr of solar energy for October: 0.17 + ((3.93*30)/473) = 0.17 + 0.25 = 0.42 Euro/kWhr solar October has been a good month but it does not compare with spring and summer months were days are much longer and the sun is higher in the sky. So this value should improve over time. ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Hypernova at Nov 2, 2011 9:07:21 AM] |
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sk..
Master Cruncher http://s17.rimg.info/ccb5d62bd3e856cc0d1df9b0ee2f7f6a.gif Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Post Count: 2324 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Do you have to hook your panels up to the grid and buy the electric back form the grid?
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Pretty much all solar panel installations to generate electricity are hooked to the electrical grid since solar panel systems at present don't have battery storage systems to input power back into the house at night. Upside is you got power during the daytime if a blackout or brownout occurs. So you may have enough power to cook and keep the refrig chilled a lot more so you got more time to use everything in that would perish.
Now the excess solar power gotten during the daytime is sold to the power company. A number of people in say California managed to get the panels paid off due to energy savings in a year or two and saw their meters spinning backward during the day. Since the panels tend to last a few decades one could make quite a few thousand dollars a year after the panels are paid off in elec bill savings depending upon how much sun they get in the area. The issue of course is how much the elec company pays you for the energy you pump back into the grid. |
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Hypernova
Master Cruncher Audaces Fortuna Juvat ! Vaud - Switzerland Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Post Count: 1908 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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The issue of course is how much the elec company pays you for the energy you pump back into the grid. The buyback scheme in fact is an indirect subventioning system where the governement puts money on the table so that the company would buyback your energy through a buyback longterm contract at a higher price than the standard grid price so that you can finance your installation over 10 or 20 years. I know that it seems completely absurd, but in a very rich country like Switzerland, that is financially very solid (very little debt and a sound profit every year), and that boasts to be green, environmentally friendly etc. etc. there is nearly no money spent to promote and develop solar or wind energy. Even promotion of hydro energy through mini and micro hydro failed many years ago. One of the problems is related to the fact that the energy sector is not a consolidated sector, it is completely exploded through a thousand companies, producers and distributors, that belong to a miriad of public and private entities. As a result we are very dependent on nuclear energy, and the hydro electrical energy does allow Switzerland to save the face in terms of renewable energy share, otherwise the Swiss governement is today the one that has the smallest budget of all in terms of renewables. The extremely powerful nuclear and hydro lobbies leave no chance to the federal governement to promote other energies. To put it in short I am entitled to nothing at all. I have to pay the full price of the Solar kWhr. It is a personal effort that I do. The only advantage I have is that I profit from the economies of scale in terms of costs. My 30 m2 are a small share of 20'000 m2 of the solar plant. So I have optimal costs in terms of investment, maintenance, operations, and guarantee of production. That is all. ![]() [Edit 4 times, last edit by Hypernova at Nov 2, 2011 1:30:12 PM] |
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Hypernova
Master Cruncher Audaces Fortuna Juvat ! Vaud - Switzerland Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Post Count: 1908 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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November was an excellent month, sunny with good weather but yet solar energy production has fallen by a good 43%.
----------------------------------------Days are really shorter and shorter. ![]() November production total is 270.5 kWhr 0.17 + ((3.93*30)/270.5) = 0.17 + 0.25 = 0.60 Euro/kWhr solar It is becoming pretty expensive. If we take the cumulative over two months we have 743.5 kWhr: 0.17 + ((3.93*61)/743.5) = 0.17 + 0.25 = 0.49 Euro/kWhr solar ![]() [Edit 1 times, last edit by Hypernova at Dec 2, 2011 5:10:12 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Yes, undeniably so.
Do you expect the summer months to provide for a decent average price? What we need is a way to store energy generated by - sunlight - wind - waves ![]() and arranging for at least one of the above to produce while the two others sleep |
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Hypernova
Master Cruncher Audaces Fortuna Juvat ! Vaud - Switzerland Joined: Dec 16, 2008 Post Count: 1908 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Do you expect the summer months to provide for a decent average price? Definitely, I hope so. But to have the final picture still 10 additional months to go. ![]() ![]() |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
There are several ways to store the energy.
Some solar power plants use molten salt to store excess energy generated during the day and deploy it to the grid at night or on days when it is not sunny. Some of these solar power plants are able to provide power 24 hours a day. http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddwoody/2011/11...olar-energy-storage-deal/ As for other power sources there is the flywheel energy storage plant such as the one built by Beacon Power that stores 20MW of power to pump into the grid as needed. |
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