Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 42
Posts: 42   Pages: 5   [ Previous Page | 1 2 3 4 5 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 14933 times and has 41 replies Next Thread
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

Hyperthreading runs 2 threads through one processor. This (usually) speeds up total throughput by 14% - 24% because the CPU is organized into multiple specialized processing units. This allows 2 instruction streams to utilize different units. When both threads need the same unit, one thread pauses and the other executes. So sometimes only one thread is executing and sometimes 2 threads are executing simultaneously. It is possible to design threads so that total throughput increases 0% or 40%, which is why I say the rule of thumb is 14% to 24% speedup. The additional chip area for the core is only about 5%, so this is an efficient use of space. There is some question aqbout whether the additional architectural design complexity and time is worth it, compared to some other possibilities, but Intel has been pushing hyperthreading for a decade now. The question is still open.

Lawrence
[Dec 10, 2009 1:36:34 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ingleside
Veteran Cruncher
Norway
Joined: Nov 19, 2005
Post Count: 974
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

Ingleside, you just missed a point.
CPU 1 is running 100% (computing performance single core)
CPU2 is running 200% (computing performance double but in single core, due to higher speed, and more performant arhitecture, faster memory etc.)

Ah, so you're trying to mix-in different cpu-speeds, generations and so on...

While trying to do this comparison could be interesting, it makes it very much harder to know what effects, if any, there are of running 4 wu at once on a quad compared to a single one, and using HT or not...

So, it's easier to do these comparisons on the same cpu, to see how much, if any, increase there are from this.

But CPU2 is also quad core with 4 physical cores. So you get 4x2 that is a factor of 8. If you run HT then you get 16. If the performance is scalable and you had 8 physical cores then the final factor would remain at 16. Then I suppose that the points generated compared to CPU1 would be

Even going from a single wu to 4, you won't have a linear increase in all applications, often you'll get a penalty just by doing this. The effects of HT is also variable, but it's atleast unrealistic you'll get a linear increase in wu-production by using HT.

The second you starts running more than one wu at once, they have the chance of interfering with eachother, and slowing-down eachother. For some applications this interference is basically zero, and you'll get basically linear increase by running N wu on N physical cores, and an extra boost for using HT. In other instances running similar wu on all cores can heavily influence eachother, and using HT can give zero benefit.

CPU2 = 16xCPU1 in terms of WU/day and points/day.

Unfortunately we do not have eight physical cores but only four but 8 virtual cores then an additional performance factor has to be added to reduce the 16 factor, this is the one I called C.
Which brings us to

CPU2 = 16xCxCPU1 in terms of WU/day and points/day

In the end my question was to understand if point calculations are straightforward scalable in terms of increased performance of the CPU.
The reason I ask this question is that the benchmark operation that Boinc does on each computer reamins fuzzy as for its effect on points calculations.

Hypernova

I haven't looked on the crediting in WCG, but wouldn't be surprised if HT-computers claimes on the high side. If the granted credit is also on the high side, or if it's more or less in line with other computers, I don't know.
----------------------------------------


"I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might."
[Dec 10, 2009 6:01:15 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

dreamer77dd,

see posts by e.g. movieman on testing these Ix monsters with HT. The effective throughput i.e. the number of work units completed on average in a day was I think to remember 15% i.e. 4 Hardware cores + 4 Virtual cores adds 15% whilst the benchmark of the client assumes all cores are equal... net, there's without exception for those results coming off the virtual cores an over-claim condition.

And a I7 can do with HT active a maximum of 8 concurrent jobs on BOINC in case I misunderstood you about what CPU is doing 16 concurrently. There are none presently unless dual socket quads.
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Dec 10, 2009 8:36:43 AM]
[Dec 10, 2009 8:36:18 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JSYKES
Senior Cruncher
Joined: Apr 28, 2007
Post Count: 206
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

Hi Guys...I seem to have sparked more of a debate than I had expected.... if we ignore the maths for the moment, I have two set-ups, one running 4 cores (ie 8 threads) and one running dual core (2 threads) -both running Hyperthreading, the former on W7 the latter on XP - my original question was why is there a marked difference between the claim/reward points ratio per WU on the dual core than there is on the 4 core? The dual core gets better claim/reward ratios. Given that they are both working at much the same clock speed and generally churn out the WU's in comparable times (as far as one can actually generalise this, of course) this factor seems to be 'coreist', favouring machines with fewer cores!!!!! Or is this paranoia......?

I still wonder if there is a glitch somewhere in the code between XP and W7 when it comes to the HPF units - I am still getting a high ratio of 'computation errors' on the W7 and virtually none on the XP.......

Oh yes, Sekerob, the additional throughput of WU's on the 4 core is way more than 15% extra - there was a very noticable difference of slope on my points graph between the two machines as soon as the 4 core was operative. On this, I am now regularly checking in over 150hrs/day computing time, often more when I'm not using the machine for other things in the evenings - so there is a very noticable benefit!
----------------------------------------

[Dec 13, 2009 11:17:59 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

Let me bow out and see if the BOINC world wide credit policy revision will return some reality to the measure. It's OT anyhow to this thread.
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
[Dec 13, 2009 11:45:07 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
CCP Oneiromancer
Cruncher
Joined: Apr 5, 2008
Post Count: 15
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

I am running all available projects on all my machines.
So far the computational error for HPF2 only occured on the i7 Windows7 machine. All others have finished the WUs just fine.

However, I haven't been getting any errors in the last few days, so maybe the issue (whatever it was) fixed itself.
[Dec 13, 2009 8:02:16 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

well i get them even though it is on vista not running on a intel machine. i think it is more wide range then just windows 7 and i7 core.
[Dec 14, 2009 3:56:05 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

Who said it was W7 and I7 only?
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
[Dec 14, 2009 4:07:48 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

I received the following error " computing suspended while running benchmarks" could you please help me? I cant see the graphics... In spanish your answer is appreciated, kind regards from costa rica
[Dec 14, 2009 6:05:01 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Sekerob
Ace Cruncher
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Post Count: 20043
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: computational error ?

Buenos días,

Unrelated to this topic, this message is not an error, rather simply tells that the sciences were stopped to perform the periodic benchmark which lasts about 30 seconds after which there should be a line to tell that computations were resumed.

14/12/2009 19:10:23 Running CPU benchmarks
14/12/2009 19:10:23 Suspending computation - running CPU benchmarks
14/12/2009 19:10:54 Benchmark results:
14/12/2009 19:10:54 Number of CPUs: 2
14/12/2009 19:10:54 1524 floating point MIPS (Whetstone) per CPU
14/12/2009 19:10:54 3296 integer MIPS (Dhrystone) per CPU
14/12/2009 19:10:55 Resuming computation

Sorry, in English since Spanish is Spanish to me ;>)

And congratulations as finally after many decades you will again have uniform grammar and dictionary for the 300 million Spanish speaking on the planet (second language spoken after Mandarin)
----------------------------------------
WCG Global & Research > Make Proposal Help: Start Here!
Please help to make the Forums an enjoyable experience for All!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Dec 17, 2009 12:41:50 PM]
[Dec 14, 2009 6:12:26 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 42   Pages: 5   [ Previous Page | 1 2 3 4 5 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread