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themoonscrescent
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Re: computational error ?

Stg.joe is right, on my i7 870 (With Hyperthreading), I get about 4 in every 10 fail, when running HPF2 only.

This drops to between 2 & 5 in every 40 when I add a 2nd project, and it starts working some of each.
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Re: computational error ?

This should really be fix :( thats alot of time making errors and not send back good data.
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Re: computational error ?

I have 12 error results on this project over the past two weeks from two different computers. All occurred within the first minute, so there is little harm done. I also have 15 PAGES of Valid results on this project over the same time frame, so the frequency of these errors isn't high either.

I don't view this as a big problem, but if anyone is interested in looking into it, I would be happy to post any additional information requested.
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JSYKES
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Re: computational error ?

It is good to know that there are Errors being generated other than on my machine! I note with interest that those with i7 processors (I'm running an OC 2.66 920 @ 3.66Ghz and stable at 53C, so no core temp issues, OS W7Pro) seem to be having more errors - there may be something in this - as I am also running Grid on a 2 Core (3.2Ghz no OC and OS XP Pro) and this is churning out perfect HPF WU's every time - the i7 is getting about 50-60% - the reminder drop out in less than 5 minutes, often less than 2 mins, so no real loss of personal productivity - but is there a loss of efficiency overall? I am running 5 different projects in the usual random mix of WU's, nothing is exclusive to either machine - is there pattern of HPF Errors on i7's running W7 I wonder? Does anyone have anything to add to this theory????

Oh Yes - I've also noticed that the points credited per WU (doesn't seem to matter which project) on the Core 2 is about 15-20% higher than the points claimed - on the i7, the reverse happens, the points claimed per WU is almost always higher than the points credited, again by 10-15% or so - is there a reason for this?
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themoonscrescent
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Re: computational error ?

It's not so much the i7's as it is Vista and Win7 causing the errors, just tend to see more errors on i7's due to the amount of workunits they require in a day.
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JmBoullier
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Re: computational error ?

on the i7, the reverse happens, the points claimed per WU is almost always higher than the points credited, again by 10-15% or so - is there a reason for this?

I have no i7 to check it, but if it is the same as for my P4 HT the benchmark in HT mode is far too high for the work done. With regards to the actual job throughput (30 % better in HT mode) the benchmark should be about 65 % of what it is when not using HT, but it is only slightly smaller than the single-task one, so this HT device is overclaiming (longer runtime time with almost the same benchmark) and that gets corrected when validating.

But not as much as it should as your percentages show. smile

Cheers. Jean.
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Hypernova
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Re: computational error ?

JMBoullier, can you help me understand better this issue of point calculation. The WU's are same for everybody. A faster processor will process the same WU in a shorter time. Twice faster menas half time per WU. IF now there are many physical cores in parallel then you multiply again per core numbers.
Let's make an example with continuosly running processors.

So CPU1 with one physical core runs at 100% and so has A WU/day and will get B points/day.

CPU2 with four physical core running at 200% will do 8XA WU/day and get 8XB points/day.

Now if CPU2 is with HT and runs 8 virtual cores what happens? It will be slower by acertain percentage compared to 8 physical core. Say C% less. Then the final evaluation of CPU2 would be:

16x(C/100)xA WU/day and 16X(c/100)xB Points/day.

Right? no probably not..

Hypernova
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Ingleside
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Re: computational error ?

Let's make an example with continuosly running processors.

So CPU1 with one physical core runs at 100% and so has A WU/day and will get B points/day.

CPU2 with four physical core running at 200% will do 8XA WU/day and get 8XB points/day.

confused

How do your quad manage to run 8x more than a single-core?

More accurate would be:
A quad-core running 100% will do maybe 3.9x A wu/day, and should get 3.9x points/day. **

Now if CPU2 is with HT and runs 8 virtual cores what happens? It will be slower by acertain percentage compared to 8 physical core. Say C% less. Then the final evaluation of CPU2 would be:

16x(C/100)xA WU/day and 16X(c/100)xB Points/day.

Right? no probably not..

A quad with HT will run 8 threads, not 16.

As for performance, this can be heavily influenced by the application, whatever other things you're doing, and so on.

But, if you're really unlucky, so you're running a memory-bandwidth-limited application, you'll maybe land on 3.8x A wu/day, and should get 3.8x B points/day, then you're running 8 threads on a quad-HT.

More commonly, you'll land somewhere between 4x and 5x A wu/day, and should get 4x - 5x B points/day, then you're using HT.

Exactly where you lands depends on the mix of applications and so on, it's possible running 8x wu of one application will give no benefit, while running 8x wu on another application gives maybe 25% increase. Or, running a mix of 8 different applications is the best...


** I've not tested it on i7 or similar, but some applications often has a "smp-penalty", there running N instances on N physical cores gives longer times per wu, than running 1 instance on 1 physical core. Also, how much, if there is an effect, depends on application...

A good example on the "smp-penalty" is with my long-since retired p3-dual-cpu, there running 1 seti-wu used N hours, while running 2 seti-wu simultaneously used 1.1x N hours, meaning a "penalty" of 10%. The total wu/day was of course much higher running 2 at once, but by no means a linear increase.
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Hypernova
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confused Re: computational error ?

Ingleside, you just missed a point.
CPU 1 is running 100% (computing performance single core)
CPU2 is running 200% (computing performance double but in single core, due to higher speed, and more performant arhitecture, faster memory etc.)

But CPU2 is also quad core with 4 physical cores. So you get 4x2 that is a factor of 8. If you run HT then you get 16. If the performance is scalable and you had 8 physical cores then the final factor would remain at 16. Then I suppose that the points generated compared to CPU1 would be

CPU2 = 16xCPU1 in terms of WU/day and points/day.

Unfortunately we do not have eight physical cores but only four but 8 virtual cores then an additional performance factor has to be added to reduce the 16 factor, this is the one I called C.
Which brings us to

CPU2 = 16xCxCPU1 in terms of WU/day and points/day

In the end my question was to understand if point calculations are straightforward scalable in terms of increased performance of the CPU.
The reason I ask this question is that the benchmark operation that Boinc does on each computer reamins fuzzy as for its effect on points calculations.

Hypernova
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Re: computational error ?

HT is only to trick the application to think it has more then one core or more spreading the performance across the board. It does not actually have the strength of extra cores. this was my understanding.
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