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Thread: Ted Kennedy |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Ye Gods, now this thread is full of bible punchers.....damn things get everywhere!
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
If universal health care is a right, then government has a duty to ensure that provision is available. The provision can be at a state level, it can even involve churches and charities. But a responsible government can't just leave it to independent charities and hope that everybody will be covered.
Denying healthcare to those who need it most because of a belief that it should be provided by charities? I find it very hard to reconcile that with christian values. If we accept that healthcare should be available to everyone (setting aside the question of how), then the next question is what is the most efficient, cost effective way of doing so? |
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damir1978
Senior Cruncher Joined: Apr 16, 2007 Post Count: 397 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Ye Gods, now this thread is full of bible punchers.....damn things get everywhere!  The Ancient Romans must have felt exactly like you Sorry Scribe... Christian arguments from PecosRiverM demand Christian contra-arguments from me. |
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PecosRiverM
Veteran Cruncher The Great State of Texas Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Post Count: 1054 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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And Apostles ... here, James: Faith without Works Is Dead "14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?" "17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." "18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works." "19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." "20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" "22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" "24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." "26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." What better charity for poors you find than Universal HealthCare? Isn't that what the good samaritan did? He provided healthcare for the injured man. He didn't say : "Hey! I work, I have healthcare, You don't work?.... DIE, you lazy bum!!!" Very easy to scream "I'm a Christian", no? But those damn Christian ideas are pretty hard to put them into your life...., no? Better just to ignore them and just say: Believing is being Christian. Very Good. But when did I say Hey! I work, I have healthcare, You don't work?.... DIE, you lazy bum! I just said it's Not the Federal Governments Job. As for my works, I do help the poor and needy with Food, Clothing and other basic needs. That as I see it is my duty as a Christian. I get the impression that since I don't favor Government interaction in my life I'm not doing God's will. I can see we're worlds apart in our views of God's will. I may also be chosing the wrong words to get my point across(never was much on writting and grammer). damir1978 you and Didactylos seem well educated. Didactylos also seems to be viewing this as a Europen(different outlook I only lived there for 3yrs). I not sure where either of you live, not that it really matters. PS I'm sorry for getting off topic. This is about Ted Kennedy.  [Edit 1 times, last edit by PecosRiverM at Aug 28, 2009 9:34:46 PM] |
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damir1978
Senior Cruncher Joined: Apr 16, 2007 Post Count: 397 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Ted Kennedy... I know... Never liked the Kennedy's too much anyway. They (and the Bush family) are the living proof that America is actually an oligarchy, like Greek States 2500 years now. And that is not good at all.
----------------------------------------If you check my first post here, I said that "As an advocate for Universal Health Care he was a great American." But, look now, the democrats can vote whatever they want and it will pass if they really want something to pass. And even like that, America will not pass any law resembling Universal HealthCare as it is seen in Europe or Canada. So there are advocates and advocates - some that want to win and some that just want to get the fame of what they are advocating about. I am not living in America, so I should not be concern one bit. Where I live I have Universal Healthcare and it's GREAT!!! But because of American policy towards its citizens (washing their brains daily about the greatest country in the world, while they get robed by anybody from the oligarchy), the hole world its suffering. Like I said in another thread, Europeans with 500 millions people can afford living better (Universal Healthcare, 1 month base vacation, half a day work Friday, more than 1 year paid maternity leave, better food, better cars, better houses and roads or services) than the Americans which have almost a continent to manage for the 300 millions of citizens and they are living in fear of tomorrow (if they loose job), no matter what salary range they have. Isn't that something to think about about the greatest country in the world?  I'm just saying, do you have any political party that offer more than you have ... like what europeans or canadians have? |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Ted Kennedy... I know... Never liked the Kennedy's too much anyway. They (and the Bush family) are the living proof that America is actually an oligarchy, like Greek States 2500 years now. And that is not good at all. If you check my first post here, I said that "As an advocate for Universal Health Care he was a great American." But, look now, the democrats can vote whatever they want and it will pass if they really want something to pass. And even like that, America will not pass any law resembling Universal HealthCare as it is seen in Europe or Canada. So there are advocates and advocates - some that want to win and some that just want to get the fame of what they are advocating about. I am not living in America, so I should not be concern one bit. Where I live I have Universal Healthcare and it's GREAT!!! But because of American policy towards its citizens (washing their brains daily about the greatest country in the world, while they get robed by anybody from the oligarchy), the hole world its suffering. Like I said in another thread, Europeans with 500 millions people can afford living better (Universal Healthcare, 1 month base vacation, half a day work Friday, more than 1 year paid maternity leave, better food, better cars, better houses and roads or services) than the Americans which have almost a continent to manage for the 300 millions of citizens and they are living in fear of tomorrow (if they loose job), no matter what salary range they have. Isn't that something to think about about the greatest country in the world? I'm just saying, do you have any political party that offer more than you have ... like what europeans or canadians have?I think you are right about oligarchy--we dont have an honest Govt.and we are suffering for it--But i think the wind is turning at least i hope so. Obama is a communist revolutionary and most of the people he has appointed |
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Movieman
Veteran Cruncher Joined: Sep 9, 2006 Post Count: 1042 Status: Offline |
I grew up in Massachusetts where the Kennedy's political base is and was.
----------------------------------------To give you a sense of the feeling about the family I remember going 'trick or treating" on October 31,1960 just a few days before the election between JFK and Nixon. We( at 8 years old) were asking people if they were voting for kennedy or Nixon. If they said Nixon we waxed their windows! As to Ted, it's a tough thing to do to try and judge him or sum up his 77 year life span in just a few words but I'll try. As a young man a spoiled and very protected person that lived in the shadows of his brothers. Never really 'grew up" until his 60's in my opinion and made many mistakes including that incident with Mary Jo Kopectne. Left a party with her, drunk and drove off a narrow bridge and then paniced and tried to cover up his involvement. Could this have happenned to any of us? The answer is yes but in my mind it was his behavior after the accident that left a bad taste in my mouth. Then the years of living in a bottle while also doing some very good things for the people of this country in the Senate. You have to look at all of his life to get a good picture of who he was and I think that when all is weighed you come to the conclusion that like most of us he had his good points and his bad. You also have to admit that he spent many years working for the rights of the "down and out" in this country. The "have nots" who needed such a voice and found one in him. As a person he 'grew up" in his late 50's and came into his own in his 60's.. Very late to get there but when you look at his upbringing you start to see why. I'm not one to sing his laurels or to bash him but to see both sides of the man. I think when all is said and done it's fair to say that with his errors and mistakes he also did a great deal of good for the country and leave it at that.  |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I grew up in Massachusetts where the Kennedy's political base is and was. To give you a sense of the feeling about the family I remember going 'trick or treating" on October 31,1960 just a few days before the election between JFK and Nixon. We( at 8 years old) were asking people if they were voting for kennedy or Nixon. If they said Nixon we waxed their windows! As to Ted, it's a tough thing to do to try and judge him or sum up his 77 year life span in just a few words but I'll try. As a young man a spoiled and very protected person that lived in the shadows of his brothers. Never really 'grew up" until his 60's in my opinion and made many mistakes including that incident with Mary Jo Kopectne. Left a party with her, drunk and drove off a narrow bridge and then paniced and tried to cover up his involvement. Could this have happenned to any of us? The answer is yes but in my mind it was his behavior after the accident that left a bad taste in my mouth. Then the years of living in a bottle while also doing some very good things for the people of this country in the Senate. You have to look at all of his life to get a good picture of who he was and I think that when all is weighed you come to the conclusion that like most of us he had his good points and his bad. You also have to admit that he spent many years working for the rights of the "down and out" in this country. The "have nots" who needed such a voice and found one in him. As a person he 'grew up" in his late 50's and came into his own in his 60's.. Very late to get there but when you look at his upbringing you start to see why. I'm not one to sing his laurels or to bash him but to see both sides of the man. I think when all is said and done it's fair to say that with his errors and mistakes he also did a great deal of good for the country and leave it at that. Honest and well said |
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Tripholiada
Cruncher Joined: Jan 20, 2009 Post Count: 34 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I grew up in Massachusetts where the Kennedy's political base is and was. To give you a sense of the feeling about the family I remember going 'trick or treating" on October 31,1960 just a few days before the election between JFK and Nixon. We( at 8 years old) were asking people if they were voting for kennedy or Nixon. If they said Nixon we waxed their windows! As to Ted, it's a tough thing to do to try and judge him or sum up his 77 year life span in just a few words but I'll try. As a young man a spoiled and very protected person that lived in the shadows of his brothers. Never really 'grew up" until his 60's in my opinion and made many mistakes including that incident with Mary Jo Kopectne. Left a party with her, drunk and drove off a narrow bridge and then paniced and tried to cover up his involvement. Could this have happenned to any of us? The answer is yes but in my mind it was his behavior after the accident that left a bad taste in my mouth. Then the years of living in a bottle while also doing some very good things for the people of this country in the Senate. You have to look at all of his life to get a good picture of who he was and I think that when all is weighed you come to the conclusion that like most of us he had his good points and his bad. You also have to admit that he spent many years working for the rights of the "down and out" in this country. The "have nots" who needed such a voice and found one in him. As a person he 'grew up" in his late 50's and came into his own in his 60's.. Very late to get there but when you look at his upbringing you start to see why. I'm not one to sing his laurels or to bash him but to see both sides of the man. I think when all is said and done it's fair to say that with his errors and mistakes he also did a great deal of good for the country and leave it at that. Honest and well said agreed. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
FOR YOU YOUNGER FOLKS WHO DID NOT LIVE THROUGH THESE TIMES AND A REMINDER FOR THOSE OF US WHO DID.
ALL THIS PRAISE FOR KENNEDY IS LIKE FORGIVING O.J. BECAUSE HE WAS A GOOD FOOTBALL PLAYER OR MICHAEL JACKSON BECAUSE HE DANCED GOOD!! As soon as his cancer was found, I noticed the immediate attempt at canonization of old Teddy by the main stream media .. telling us what a "great American" he is. I say, let's get a couple things clear & not twist the facts to change the real history .. he was caught cheating at Harvard .. while attending, he was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a classmate to cheat for him... While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed up for four years instead of two.. great .. the man can't count to four .. His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England, pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not Korea, where a war was raging... no preferential treatment for him like he charged President Bush received ... Kennedy was assigned to Paris, never advanced beyond the rank of Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged... imagine a person of his "education" NEVER advancing past the rank of Private ... While attending law school at the University of Virginia , he was cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighbourhood with his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver's license was never revoked. He passed the bar exam in 1959 ... amazing !! In 1964, he was seriously injured in a plane crash, and hospitalized for several months. Test results done by the hospital at the time he was admitted had shown he was DUI .. the results of those test remained a "state secret" until in the 1980's when the report was unsealed .. On 19 July 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys to his Oldsmobile limousine, and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond. He swam to shore and walked back to the party -- passing several houses and a fire station -- and two friends returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew, that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep. Kennedy called the police the next morning. By then the wreck had already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car. The Kennedy family began "calling in favours", ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne, and he didn't call police because he was in a state of shock. It is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, and he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight. Since the accident, Kennedy's "political enemies" have referred to him as the distinguished Senator from Chappaquiddick... He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, and was given a SUSPENDED SENTENCE OF TWO MONTHS. Kopechne's family received a small payout from the Kennedy's insurance policy, and never sued. There was later an effort to have her body exhumed and autopsied, but her family successfully fought against this in court, and Kennedy's family paid their attorney's bills... a "token of friendship" ? Kennedy has held his Senate seat for more than forty years, but considering his longevity, his accomplishments seem scant. He authored or argued for legislation that ensured a variety of civil rights, increased the minimum wage in 1981, made access to health care easier for the indigent, and funded Meals on Wheels for fixed-income seniors and is widely held as the "standard-bearer for liberalism". In his very first Senate roll, he was the floor manager for the bill that turned U.S. immigration policy upside down and opened the floodgate for immigrants from third world countries. Since that time, he has been the prime instigator and author of every expansion of and increase in immigration, up to and including the latest attempt to grant amnesty to illegal aliens. Let's not allow the spin doctors make this jerk a hero -- how quickly the American public forgets what the real legacy is -- |
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