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Forum: Teams
Thread:  Join "MyOnlineTeam" Today - Chapter 23 |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Folks, if you want to crunch at other projects instead of or in addition to WCG, just please keep in mind the MyOnlineTeam is not just here. We exist at quite a few projects. That said, we're all old enough around here to make our own decisions about what projects we crunch for. I would like to say that I don't take it personally when someone leaves but, in truth, there's a part of me that does. I see that as part of my responsibility as a team captain, plain and simple. How and why any of us crunch is pretty much the same kind of decision as which charities we support financially or with our time and personal involvement. That isn't something that is fixed and carved in stone. People change and their priorities change. If the team here loses someone, we can only continue on. This, quite frankly, is nothing new. I have worked to rebuild the team here before and I have to expect to do it again....and again. It's just the "nature of the beast". For me, I believe in the science being done here. WCG does not have a monopoly on good science or on problems, at least as perceived by those of us in the crunching trenches. Welcome to life.
----------------------------------------If you go elsewhere, I wish you well. If you move to a project where we have a presence, albeit a small one at this point, I hope you'll consider be a part of MOT there. I hope we stay mindful of the fact that there are no one sided coins. The vast majority of DC projects appear to be based in academia or some research institution that is part of or affiliated with academia. What exposure I have had so far, limited as it is I'll admit, strikes me as rather informal and loose. Predictor went down in early December for a move to a new university with plans to return in early January. It's still down. Outages at other projects seem to be more common and more unscheduled. We're not going to find a perfect project, just one (or more) that we each choose to believe in. It's not perfect here either. In the last 6-9 months, I'd admittedly fault the admins here for a lack of communication, not about the big things, but about the little things. If the big things aren't done right, you won't get folks joining here. If you don't do the little things right, you'll lose those that are here. If someone reports a problem in one of the forums or by email to the admins and that problem turns out to be a real problem, it ought to be posted in Known Issues. If I see a problem, I ought to be able to look through Member News and Known Issues and find it there if it's a current or reappearing problem. I should not have to go hunting through the other forums. No, searching the fora is not hard but picking the right keywords to search on is not always that easy. If you don't search on the right keywords, you miss finding the existing or past discussion. The individual project forums are there for news about that specifc project. The process of research is a VERY slow one. One that is much longer than most of us would expect. Truly good science is not done overnight or in a rush. Keeping us crunchers satisfied with the pace of the research, given our overall level of ignorance of that sunject, has been a challenge here since the beginning. That isn't going to change. Before, I said there is no one sided coin. WCG is a somewhat unique project. It is operated out of the for profit business world but as a non-profit operation. In today's business environment, I'm surprised it happened at all. Greed is good is NOT dead in the business world where far to often, employees are just another commodity, an expense to be "managed", ranking just this side of carbon paper. I would expect that a company like IBM has something they offer in the realm of grid computing. I would not be surprised somewhere along the way a few years back, someone had the idea for WCG and what it could be. That's not the sort of thing you convince a for profit business to undertake. I would expect that WCG came to be because someone convinced the powers that be that it would be a way to showcase their capabilities in the arena of grid computing, and that it would fit well in IBM's corporate strategy for supporting charitable causes. The fact that it still exists says that it probably has some direct, personal support from one or more of those powers that be. Still, in a for profit business, it is not a direct revenue source. It's pure expense. I would be surprised to find that the entire group responsible for the day to day operation of WCG is more than a dozen or so folks. When you take time to sit back and think about what all it must take to keep WCG going, well, I seriously doubt that any of the WCG admins lacks for work to do. It probably is frustrating for them too to not be able to do all the things they know need to be done. They have to work on what is the priority stuff first. That has to be getting new science projects going and keeping the ones they have going going. That said, I don't think it would hurt them to pull back the curtain a bit and give us a glimpse of what the "wizard" really looks like and the buttons and levers he has. For those of you who choose to go elsewhere, we'll leave a light on for you. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
*sigh* This is the reason why I neglect joining teams.
----------------------------------------I will think it over. Also, don't take it personally or anything but I want my time and effort to be given to the program that will make the best use of it. I am limited in hardware and money that I can spend paying off the electricity bills. I'll be looking into paying off college soon so I need all the money I can save. I respect MOT and everything that it's done to make a difference. But knowing that work units are being progressively crunched isn't good enough for me. I want to see some sort of data analysis showing that WCG is progressing in it's research findings. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Jan 21, 2008 2:11:40 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Keith, I have an immense amount of respect for you and the MOT as a whole. While I don't purport to speak for anyone else, I can say that my frustration is certainly not with you, but with the way that IBM runs WCG. IBM is, at heart, a corporation - as you have pointed out. As such, it has obligations to stockholders that trump its committments to philanthropic enterprises such as WCG. However, universities don't suffer from this problem. They're given money and asked to produce research results, but they're not subjected to hardcore cost-benefit analysis with respect to the bottom line. Recently I've had a number of issues with my client searching for new work and not having it assigned (yes, I do have the receive work from other projects if there is none available at my preferred project button checked). Additionally, I've been somewhat underwhelmed at the research produced by WCG. As an academic myself, I know that we live in a publish or perish world - an attitude that hasn't seemed to trickle down into WCG. I'm not out yet, but I am somewhat frustrated. Thanks for offering to keep the light on for everyone - maybe some of us just need a little break.
Folks, if you want to crunch at other projects instead of or in addition to WCG, just please keep in mind the MyOnlineTeam is not just here. We exist at quite a few projects. That said, we're all old enough around here to make our own decisions about what projects we crunch for. I would like to say that I don't take it personally when someone leaves but, in truth, there's a part of me that does. I see that as part of my responsibility as a team captain, plain and simple. How and why any of us crunch is pretty much the same kind of decision as which charities we support financially or with our time and personal involvement. That isn't something that is fixed and carved in stone. People change and their priorities change. If the team here loses someone, we can only continue on. This, quite frankly, is nothing new. I have worked to rebuild the team here before and I have to expect to do it again....and again. It's just the "nature of the beast". For me, I believe in the science being done here. WCG does not have a monopoly on good science or on problems, at least as perceived by those of us in the crunching trenches. Welcome to life. If you go elsewhere, I wish you well. If you move to a project where we have a presence, albeit a small one at this point, I hope you'll consider be a part of MOT there. I hope we stay mindful of the fact that there are no one sided coins. The vast majority of DC projects appear to be based in academia or some research institution that is part of or affiliated with academia. What exposure I have had so far, limited as it is I'll admit, strikes me as rather informal and loose. Predictor went down in early December for a move to a new university with plans to return in early January. It's still down. Outages at other projects seem to be more common and more unscheduled. We're not going to find a perfect project, just one (or more) that we each choose to believe in. It's not perfect here either. In the last 6-9 months, I'd admittedly fault the admins here for a lack of communication, not about the big things, but about the little things. If the big things aren't done right, you won't get folks joining here. If you don't do the little things right, you'll lose those that are here. If someone reports a problem in one of the forums or by email to the admins and that problem turns out to be a real problem, it ought to be posted in Known Issues. If I see a problem, I ought to be able to look through Member News and Known Issues and find it there if it's a current or reappearing problem. I should not have to go hunting through the other forums. No, searching the fora is not hard but picking the right keywords to search on is not always that easy. If you don't search on the right keywords, you miss finding the existing or past discussion. The individual project forums are there for news about that specifc project. The process of research is a VERY slow one. One that is much longer than most of us would expect. Truly good science is not done overnight or in a rush. Keeping us crunchers satisfied with the pace of the research, given our overall level of ignorance of that sunject, has been a challenge here since the beginning. That isn't going to change. Before, I said there is no one sided coin. WCG is a somewhat unique project. It is operated out of the for profit business world but as a non-profit operation. In today's business environment, I'm surprised it happened at all. Greed is good is NOT dead in the business world where far to often, employees are just another commodity, an expense to be "managed", ranking just this side of carbon paper. I would expect that a company like IBM has something they offer in the realm of grid computing. I would not be surprised somewhere along the way a few years back, someone had the idea for WCG and what it could be. That's not the sort of thing you convince a for profit business to undertake. I would expect that WCG came to be because someone convinced the powers that be that it would be a way to showcase their capabilities in the arena of grid computing, and that it would fit well in IBM's corporate strategy for supporting charitable causes. The fact that it still exists says that it probably has some direct, personal support from one or more of those powers that be. Still, in a for profit business, it is not a direct revenue source. It's pure expense. I would be surprised to find that the entire group responsible for the day to day operation of WCG is more than a dozen or so folks. When you take time to sit back and think about what all it must take to keep WCG going, well, I seriously doubt that any of the WCG admins lacks for work to do. It probably is frustrating for them too to not be able to do all the things they know need to be done. They have to work on what is the priority stuff first. That has to be getting new science projects going and keeping the ones they have going going. That said, I don't think it would hurt them to pull back the curtain a bit and give us a glimpse of what the "wizard" really looks like and the buttons and levers he has. For those of you who choose to go elsewhere, we'll leave a light on for you. |
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Folks, if you want to crunch at other projects instead of or in addition to WCG, just please keep in mind the MyOnlineTeam is not just here. We exist at quite a few projects. That said, we're all old enough around here to make our own decisions about what projects we crunch for. I would like to say that I don't take it personally when someone leaves but, in truth, there's a part of me that does. I see that as part of my responsibility as a team captain, plain and simple. How and why any of us crunch is pretty much the same kind of decision as which charities we support financially or with our time and personal involvement. That isn't something that is fixed and carved in stone. People change and their priorities change. If the team here loses someone, we can only continue on. This, quite frankly, is nothing new. I have worked to rebuild the team here before and I have to expect to do it again....and again. It's just the "nature of the beast". For me, I believe in the science being done here. WCG does not have a monopoly on good science or on problems, at least as perceived by those of us in the crunching trenches. Welcome to life. If you go elsewhere, I wish you well. If you move to a project where we have a presence, albeit a small one at this point, I hope you'll consider be a part of MOT there. I hope we stay mindful of the fact that there are no one sided coins. The vast majority of DC projects appear to be based in academia or some research institution that is part of or affiliated with academia. What exposure I have had so far, limited as it is I'll admit, strikes me as rather informal and loose. Predictor went down in early December for a move to a new university with plans to return in early January. It's still down. Outages at other projects seem to be more common and more unscheduled. We're not going to find a perfect project, just one (or more) that we each choose to believe in. It's not perfect here either. In the last 6-9 months, I'd admittedly fault the admins here for a lack of communication, not about the big things, but about the little things. If the big things aren't done right, you won't get folks joining here. If you don't do the little things right, you'll lose those that are here. If someone reports a problem in one of the forums or by email to the admins and that problem turns out to be a real problem, it ought to be posted in Known Issues. If I see a problem, I ought to be able to look through Member News and Known Issues and find it there if it's a current or reappearing problem. I should not have to go hunting through the other forums. No, searching the fora is not hard but picking the right keywords to search on is not always that easy. If you don't search on the right keywords, you miss finding the existing or past discussion. The individual project forums are there for news about that specifc project. The process of research is a VERY slow one. One that is much longer than most of us would expect. Truly good science is not done overnight or in a rush. Keeping us crunchers satisfied with the pace of the research, given our overall level of ignorance of that sunject, has been a challenge here since the beginning. That isn't going to change. Before, I said there is no one sided coin. WCG is a somewhat unique project. It is operated out of the for profit business world but as a non-profit operation. In today's business environment, I'm surprised it happened at all. Greed is good is NOT dead in the business world where far to often, employees are just another commodity, an expense to be "managed", ranking just this side of carbon paper. I would expect that a company like IBM has something they offer in the realm of grid computing. I would not be surprised somewhere along the way a few years back, someone had the idea for WCG and what it could be. That's not the sort of thing you convince a for profit business to undertake. I would expect that WCG came to be because someone convinced the powers that be that it would be a way to showcase their capabilities in the arena of grid computing, and that it would fit well in IBM's corporate strategy for supporting charitable causes. The fact that it still exists says that it probably has some direct, personal support from one or more of those powers that be. Still, in a for profit business, it is not a direct revenue source. It's pure expense. I would be surprised to find that the entire group responsible for the day to day operation of WCG is more than a dozen or so folks. When you take time to sit back and think about what all it must take to keep WCG going, well, I seriously doubt that any of the WCG admins lacks for work to do. It probably is frustrating for them too to not be able to do all the things they know need to be done. They have to work on what is the priority stuff first. That has to be getting new science projects going and keeping the ones they have going going. That said, I don't think it would hurt them to pull back the curtain a bit and give us a glimpse of what the "wizard" really looks like and the buttons and levers he has. For those of you who choose to go elsewhere, we'll leave a light on for you. *S*H*I*T* ... the last thing I wanted to do was start a revolt in MOT.  Keith - I admire what you have done. Not one day since I joined this team have you failed to post our stat's within an hour of the completion of posting. That is incredible! The time and resources you have contributed pales mine in comparison. This is not about you. I made my decision based on my circumstances and a long history with WCG and IBM. And I want to find out what's out there in the DC world as I have crunched exclusively for WCG since '04. There is a lot I can learn about DC and will probably make some mistakes and waste some time on bad projects. But is that not what science is about? Trial and error? I feel really bad now. I was trying to do this without an impact on MOT other than points. I should have just slipped away quietly and all of you would have just thought the old man died. Well I am still keeping one machine with MOT and WCG.   [Edit 1 times, last edit by Dataman at Jan 21, 2008 3:14:31 AM] |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I was not one quick to join a team either. I crunched alone here at WCG for over a year. I *first* joined MOT right after what looked to be something of a major "dust up". Not having been around for it, I can't speak to it. It took long enough after I joined for things to settle down - well, they didn't really - that I left MOT and went back out on my own. I did return and have now been captain for about 10 months. Teams here are not like teams are elsewhere in the real world. Being a part of a team here does nothing for you in terms of your crunching or your points. Folks join teams for a multitude of reasons. We are more of "well behaved mob" than we are a team. A team works together for a common purpose with one set of priorities. We are here at WCG for widely varying reasons and we all have different priorities. They do tend to overlap a lot but they are not the same. There are times after yet another long day at work, fighting traffic to get my daughter at day care, getting her fed, bathed and in bed, I'd really like to lay down and pass out myself. I can't. I've made a commitment here. I have a team to lead, stats to post and a website to build (which I've never done). It's there every day, even on vacation. I just try to do what I can and leave it at the end of a day a little better than it was the day before. I'm learning and trying to make things better for myself as well as the team as a whole. It is frustrating for me that I can't move at a faster pace. I just keep on keeping on.
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Dataman, you didn't start anything. You do what you have to do.
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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MyOnlineTeam Daily Statistics for 01/20 - All Members:
----------------------------------------Team rank movement report =========================
Points milestones report ======================== marysduby reached 14,500,000 points  Jonathan Figdor reached 500,000 points Runtime milestones report ========================= Dave Bell reached 5 years of runtime Results returned milestones report ================================== Dataman returned their 7,500th result Blizzie returned their 1,700th result New members report ================== No new members found. Retired members report ====================== No new retired members found. For the week as a team: Statistics Total Run Time Points Results Team Records: Results Returned: 12/19/2007 2,522 Points: 12/19/2007 379,990 Runtime: 01/25/2006 1:123:00:53:34 Good crunching folks!!!! |
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keithhenry
Ace Cruncher Senile old farts of the world ....uh.....uh..... nevermind Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Post Count: 18665 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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MyOnlineTeam Daily Statistics for 01/20 - Active Members
----------------------------------------Active team members report ==========================
Note: Active members are those who earned points in the prior 30 days. Top Ten active members returning points today: 01: marysduby - 67,288 points 02: Dataman - 24,994 points 03: Blizzie - 13,086 points 04: parmesian - 9,310 points 05: Esteban69 - 7,105 points 06: sulcata - 6,762 points 07: Jonathan Figdor - 6,464 points 08: PohSoon - 5,599 points 09: Dave Bell - 5,400 points 10: keithhenry - 5,308 points Total points returned today: 213,185 Active members returning points today: 53 Average points per member active today: 4022.35849 |
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Dataman
Ace Cruncher Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 4865 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Dataman, you didn't start anything. You do what you have to do. You are too kind Keith, but I did. Strategy is what you want to accomplish. Tactics is how you get there. I made a tactical error and I apologize to you. As I said, this is not about you or your amazing efforts. I just want to expand my knowledge. I should have just slipped away. Others can make their decisions based on what they want to accomplish. As long as they just keep crunching ... here ... or somewhere. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
  CONGRATULATIONS MARYSDUBY ON REACHING 14,500,000 MOT POINTS !!!!!!! |
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