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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support
Forum: Suggestions / Feedback
Thread: Boinc Damaging the Environment. |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 78
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Definitely one for the chat room Sek
----------------------------------------We need alternative views in the To all you Greenies Thread  |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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p.s. The current generation of CPU's cores do twice as much as their predecessors. By the end of the year it will be 4 times that amount. The Grid statistically gets Greener every day. You should see the Watts Blue Gene consumes.
----------------------------------------IDLE CPU ~30W Flat Out CPU ~80W (Even now with 4 cores running at 3Ghz) Modern PSU have to be 80+ % efficient extra power consumed over Idle ~62.5 Watts Latest CPU will give you back 12Gflops of number crunching for the cost of a 60watt bulb Change that 60Watt Bulb for a couple of the energy saving variety and you will be quids in + that 62.5W blowing out the back of your PC as heat which when it's cooler offsets the heat from your central heating so in this scenario it's not all waste. You then weigh this against potential improvements in people lives suffering Cancer AIDS Muscular Dystrophy Malaria and now the Environmental Research I know which great project gets my vote  Dave |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
My home PC is 96W idle, 102W with WCG maxing the CPU... well it varied slightly but was typically around 6W extra.
And this is the only comparison that matters because I don't leave it powered on any longer than if I were not using it for non-WCG purposes. The real power in WCG comes from using the idle time when people believe they are 'using' their computers, not from people suddenly leaving their computers powered 24/7 who would not normally do so. WCG really should be an install and forget. You should just keep using and powering off your PC as though you didn't have it installed, and you shouldn't notice it even running... but the benefit of millions of computers doing this is what gives the grid it's power. A few geeks maxing out a PC they've dedicated to WCG kind of defeats the object, and scares off the non-technical masses who are the ones (in their millions) whose spare processor cycles ticking away while they single finger type or surf the web, are the ones that will really make the difference. So yes... geeks promoting 24/7 dedicated crunching machines are... (1) going to cost people money through the extra power they will use (bad) (2) damage the enviroment through the extra power used (bad). (3) and scare off the general masses who could otherwise make the biggest difference to the effort (very bad). You're far better off, just using you PC normally, switching the screensaver on and using it as a sales tool to convince the masses to donate their spare cycles. Putting your screensaver on may lose 10% of your machines WCG capability, or switching your PC off normally may lose 60%, but the extra cycles gained by recruiting 10, 20 or 100+ additional volunteers from demonstrating that it needn't change the way they use their PC, nor cost them any more through their electricity bill, will more than compensate! (And help the planet as well, since these are the cycles that would otherwise just be wasted!) Any non-technical user reading these forums is seriously going to be put off by the suggestion that they may be supposed to be leaving their PC powered 24/7, or somehow dedicating their PC to the cause!!! Promoting normal PC usage... install and forget as the norm, will gain the grid far more cycles overall from the technically illiterate masses. Clearly WCG isn't doing something right with only 300,000 users for such a worthy cause, when it needn't cost the donator anything (other than an extra 5 or 6W in their computers power use, which is less than most things take for standby). There must be tens (possibly hundreds) of millions of PCs out there right now which are just wasting their spare cycles.... it's these we need to convince to join! That's where the real power of WCG lies! That's where we should be focussing our efforts ... not trying to eke out an extra 5% from a dedicated box in our bedrooms! |
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courine
Master Cruncher Capt., Team In2My.Net Cmd. HQ: San Francisco Joined: Apr 26, 2007 Post Count: 1794 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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Let me re-itterate:
----------------------------------------"Just to let you know, greenhouse gases are really the least of our worries. See, if the stats were correct, the earth would be an oven right now. The reason why we still are on the surface is something called global cooling. It is caused by the same gases that cause the greenhouse effect. The real problem is fluorocarbons. Ask Carl." Now if you dont know who Carl is, then dont even think this thread has any credabilty. To think that it is harmful to run 24/7 machines is amazingly short-sighted. To think that the power we use is a total waste, lacks any form of reality. To think now that I will provide anything to a group that has such shortcomings, well I can only expect to be burned as a witch. It is now time to think about the un-needed social chaos theads like this generate. For if you think about it, in the end, we would have to stop breathing to reduce greenhouse emissions enough to make everyone happy.     [Edit 1 times, last edit by courine at Sep 8, 2007 3:14:01 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Now if you dont know who Carl is, then dont even think this thread has any credabilty. Why?  To think now that I will provide anything to a group that has such shortcomings, well I can only expect to be burned as a witch. Claims against scientific consensus without any evidence/studies/data to support them are merely hearsay. For if you think about it, in the end, we would have to stop breathing to reduce greenhouse emissions enough to make everyone happy. Completely untrue and grossly exaggerated. |
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MD-Crusher
Advanced Cruncher Joined: Jul 23, 2007 Post Count: 52 Status: Offline |
The only "Carl." known with a "name" in the distributed computing world is of the BBC climate project. One way or the other these cpu intense projects need to be computed. If that can be done with existing resources, its always better and quicker than having to build yet another supercomputer center. I'd like to think that therefor, even if PCs are on a little longer opposed to would they not have been volunteered for for instance WCG, energy was saved.
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courine
Master Cruncher Capt., Team In2My.Net Cmd. HQ: San Francisco Joined: Apr 26, 2007 Post Count: 1794 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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You know Carl. He is the cosmologist that does my hair. Al and Steve are cool too, but Carl never comes up short when whipping up a doo.
----------------------------------------You guys many need to come visit my new thread. When it is up, this one should fall like a rock. Why? Well I guess you will have to come see. You will find out that trying to burn witches adds to the greenhouse gasses that will fry us all! So make sure that you use environmentally sound fuels for the fire. Let me ask you this question, "Do any of you still use incandescent light bulbs?" |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
For some reason, I think you're talking about Carl Sagan - and I can't for the life of me figure out why....
No, I don't use incandescent bulbs. Haven't bought one since.... 199something. CF bulbs were expensive at first, but even back then you saved on the electricity bill. Now, on the subject of haloalkanes, or more specifically, CFCs: you are right, they destroy the ozone layer, and they are greenhouse gases. And indeed, they have a far higher global warming potential than CO2. But current levels of CFCs in the atmosphere are tiny, and the actual radiative forcing compared to water vapour or CO2 is almost insignificant. Almost, I say. CFCs stay around for thousands of years, and are a pollutant in their own right. So we are getting rid of them. Some types of CFCs are already reducing. Looking up "global warming potential" and "radiative forcing" may prove interesting. I know I found it informative. |
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courine
Master Cruncher Capt., Team In2My.Net Cmd. HQ: San Francisco Joined: Apr 26, 2007 Post Count: 1794 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Who (or what thread) is the raging lunatic in "I Agree" agreeing to? The same suggestion (posing as a statement of fact) that this thread refers:
----------------------------------------Boinc Damaging the Environment. Now which fairytale do you want believe? 1. That we make a sizable dent in the total CO2 footprint. 2. That spent nuclear fuel is easy to dispose of. 3. That it takes more power than its worth to crunch here. 4. That the CFC crisis is over completely. 5. That there is no such thing as "Global Cooling or Dimming". 6. That we are fools and just blindly believe. 7. That I’m a witch. If there is other fairytales that I have missed, please add them as you see fit. [Edit 4 times, last edit by courine at Sep 7, 2007 11:12:58 PM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
1. That we make a sizable dent in the total CO2 footprint. Scientific consensus and a preponderance of evidence say so (see the greenies thread). If you have something to contradict that, present it. 2. That spent nuclear fuel is easy to dispose of. It's not, but it's cost-effective technology that is available now, and the most viable option (IMHO) for getting us away from carbon-dependence immediately while other technologies are developed. Well-contained and under a mountain or blasted into outer space. 3. That it takes more power than its worth to crunch here. Personally, I feel the carbon expended by this project is worthwhile. 4. That the CFC crisis is over completely. 5. That there is no such thing as "Global Cooling or Dimming". Burden of proof is on you. 6. That we are fools and just blindly believe. 7. That I’m a witch. Huh |
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