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Forum: Teams
Thread:  Join "My Online Team" today |
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Thread Status: Locked Total posts in this thread: 596
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
This is exactly what I am currently doing but if I buy these low end machines they come with power supplies, cooling fans, hard drives, video cards, LAN etc all for $45. So while the rack idea is cool it seems simpler just to buy the old machines which already have cases, network them and then use something like Real VNC to admin. $45 new? Wow! But then there should be a source for their motherboards (and the everything-onboard is quite common for even older cheap boards) should be available for MUCH less money. And remember: the many fans suck power, the many harddisks suck power, each card (video, LAN etc.) sucks MUCH more power if not onboard etc. Do the math, see what the bare mainboard idea saves on power. Also imagine 12 cheapo PCs in a room, you need a large air conditioner to cool it! Else they die quickly. In a rack you can cool much more efficiently plus the missing cards, HDs and power supply fans don't add to the produced heat. Less power consumption means that you can run multiple boards with one good power supply, this also reduces power loss and produced heat. Last: you can still use the room -- the sound from 12 cheap PCs is nothing you want to have around for more than a few minutes. Best, Stefan. Hi Stefan Have you actually built one of these farms or are we talking in theory With access to so many dirt cheap systems at the markets, car boots and watch fairs that I visit around the West Midlands in the UK, I imagine it would not take a lot of cash to buy enough cheap systems to set one set one of these farms up |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
watchout!!! Your crunchometer is in the RED !!! your wellcome layout for new members is very informative - I like it! Hi RobertI REaD somewhere that, that is where we have to keep it |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Have you actually built one of these farms or are we talking in theory I haven't built such a farm as my users run more complex programs (usual office programs plus specialized hospital software) but I'm fairly familiar with most of the techniques involved. We run a lot of diskless (and fan-less) systems -- X-Terminals that access centralized application servers and data storage systems. Many years ago I've also often set up diskless routers that booted linux from floppy (you can actually squeeze OS and routing software to a 1.44MB floppy), CD or network (using the bootp protocol). The fine thing with Linux is that you almost always find many people that can help you with problems. With Windows the typical user is only that, a user. On bigger problems he is out of luck to find out -- he formats his HD and re-installs his system. If the system is a couple of months old, he does the same as the system got too slow (AKA "bit rot"). Linux has a higher "entry barrier" so people are forced to read manuals and stuff. And problems can be solved as chances are 98:2 that the reason is a configuration error (while in windows chances are 9:1 that the reason is a software error). So even if the clients must run under Windows (will change) a person with only SOME dedication is able to install a free copy of Linux that will run out of the box and with only some reading he might be able to set up bootp and tell another machine (diskless, bare motherboard) to boot LILO (Linux boot loader) from the Linux box through the network. The LILO then allows to select a boot partition from the harddisk and voila - machine boots windows from the HD. I'm sure there's even a way to boot windows directly from the linux machine's HD which is even more elegant. While doing this the user learns about MAC addresses, DHCP, SAMBA (UNIX replacement of a windows server) and other valuable knowledge. If you're lucky, the Linux client is out very soon, then you should be up and running after one long (and exciting) weekend. You only need constant internet access, as you will type "google" many time and read a lot... With access to so many dirt cheap systems at the markets, car boots and watch fairs that I visit around the West Midlands in the UK, I imagine it would not take a lot of cash to buy enough cheap systems to set one set one of these farms up I would advise anybody who wants to dig into this: get KNOPPIX, a linux system that runs directly from a CD without installation and no writing to the harddisk -- everything you do is in RAM as long as you want. If you think you can learn how to use this (it's fun, believe me!) you can install Linux in a free partition on your HD and when switching on your PC you select whether to boot Win or Linux. Or use a second cheap PC, Linux needs much less disk space and runs nicely on half the RAM where a modern Windows only begins to have barely enough. Maybe you find someone who can set up a full server (intranet, DHCP, Samba, time, DNS) for you, only takes an hour or less for an advanced user. Knoppix (and other CD-only Linux versions) can be downloaded as a CD image and you just burn it and are ready to go. Later you can either buy a commercial distribution (Linux plus application software bundled with neat newbie-aware installer and handbook) or download a free one. E.g. Debian (my favorite distribution) where you dowload a network installer which then gets everything you want, online (www.debian.org). Debian has the most elaborate installation and update system (like "Windows Update") and ist very stable as it's a bit more consolidated (does not include all the newest bleeding edge updates immediately). If you love computers and are a person your friends ask when they have a computer problem, you will be up and running in no time and will be hungry to try the network boot stuff  Best, Stefan. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Have you actually built one of these farms or are we talking in theory If you love computers and are a person your friends ask when they have a computer problem, you will be up and running in no time and will be hungry to try the network boot stuff Best, Stefan. Hi StefanThanks for the lengthy reply That was very informative |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
a couple of the guys at jts2 have farms, they may be able to give you more thoughts on them as well.
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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It looks like roll on the linux client hopefully some news fairly soon.
----------------------------------------Welcome aboard Andrew R and finman. Thanks for choosing to crunch with the MOT Crew. As you can see from above crunching is addictive (ask Frans) it starts out harmless enough and then you find yourself comparing the prices of motherboards and cpu's, it's the start of a slippery slope  Your member pages are now online any extra info you would like to share with the world please drop me an email, imy email address can be found on the teams website, and I'll update them for you. btw the white box will be replaced with the start of your MOT points graph at 00:45GMT after the WCG stats update. Once again thanks for choosing MOT Happy Crunching Dave  [Edit 1 times, last edit by David Autumns at Aug 2, 2005 9:09:13 PM] |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Whoohoo my little sis has posted her first points
----------------------------------------Thanks Katie |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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Hi Steve (Vialls)
----------------------------------------You will rediscover the bump rumble pop rumble pop anticipation of that first chord as it makes it's way on the lead in. You don't know what you've missed until it's gone. and B sides You can't get a B side on an MP3 player. Kids of today think they have it all but what could beat Bump rumble pop rumble pop <<CRANG>> of the first chord of a Hard Days Night. As they say in my neck of the woods up in Yorkshire Nowt |
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David Autumns
Ace Cruncher UK Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Post Count: 11062 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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You go up to an Ice Cream Van and ask for a 198
----------------------------------------"A 198????" Yes two 99's  (Don't know if this reference will travel  )We're up to 2 99's at MyOnlineTeam are there any volunteers for members 199 and 200 out there? The WCG needs you. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
$45 new? Wow! But then there should be a source for their motherboards (and the everything-onboard is quite common for even older cheap boards) should be available for MUCH less money. And remember: the many fans suck power, the many harddisks suck power, each card (video, LAN etc.) sucks MUCH more power if not onboard etc. Do the math, see what the bare mainboard idea saves on power. Also imagine 12 cheapo PCs in a room, you need a large air conditioner to cool it! Else they die quickly. In a rack you can cool much more efficiently plus the missing cards, HDs and power supply fans don't add to the produced heat. Less power consumption means that you can run multiple boards with one good power supply, this also reduces power loss and produced heat. Last: you can still use the room -- the sound from 12 cheap PCs is nothing you want to have around for more than a few minutes. Best, Stefan. Definitely not new machines - these are low end discards at these prices but they typically are fully loaded for their time. So for example one came with a LAN card, a dual monitor video card (pretty useless the way I am using it) a 20 GB hard drive, CD, floppy and 256 MB of PC800 RDRAM (which is really expensive if you want top upgrade) and a PIII 866 core. This one happens to be an old Compaq which means I could find drivers (the machnies come with hard drives wiped of course). Sluggish for day to day use but a 92 composite with no mods and about 400 points a day after getting it set up. I'm using this one as a server for my PII - see an old post - to host the WCG client. Part of network boot idea would be to remove the hard drive. If power is an issue you could try stripping things down like removing the CD and floppy but the big power hogs are the hard drive and processor and the hard drive will take some work with Windows as noted (though I have found a couple of approaches I'm looking to try). For a rack farm you still have to mount power supplies, find away to have power/reset switches for the boards (beyond a screw driver), networking switches and you got keep the cats out of it to keep them from frying your boards (and the kids from being sad losing old tabby). What I have set up for a network right now is a wireless router next to my working machine, wireless laptops and then a 5 port switched wired to the router and 2 (soon to be three machines) in the basement off the switch which is my "small farm". At this point if I wanted to become a heavy hitter I would need to add say 20 of these machines (8000 points a day). That would require a power upgrade to the basement since this would be in the 3000 W range for power and would cost me $900 which is a bit much for a hobby. I haven't seen cheaper prices to put together a minimum board that could run in a rack farm. Also note that the equivalent screamers would be 8 machines at say $250 a pop (or more) or about $2K but the power usage would probably be lower overall with say 250 W a machine or 2000 W range. So cheaper to run but you can run for a long time on the $1000 difference. I am also looking to add a power meter soon to see how much these crunchers are really using. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Aug 2, 2005 9:53:14 PM] |
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