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Former Member
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Tired of starting at 0% each day

Hi,

First off I love the idea of fighting cancer and aids with distributed computing. Unfortunately, it saddens me to see that the actual work progress only saves at 33% and 66% (looks like that to me). This means I would have to leave my computer running for about 5-10 hours before any results are made.

I have seen some posts here by some community advocates, stating that we only need to leave our PCs on when we are using them. My experience here proves otherwise. There is no reason why all my used electric energy should be dumped like this except at "magic" numbers like 33% and 66%.

There are two major reasons to get rid of this issue and implement a reliable system for progress-saving (don't try to say it isn't practical, that is a ridiculous statement).

1: Less work will be wasted.

And more importantly...

2: More people will take this project seriously and you will have 'repeat customers' and less quitters.

So please, don't keep this project reserved for people who have the luxury of leaving their PC on 24/7. There are many who don't, even in the U.S. and I am one of them. Part of my rent agreement is I do not pay utilities, but have to leave things like the computer off when I am not using them. Some simply have a high energy cost (Japan for example).
[Aug 31, 2006 5:05:56 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day


There are two major reasons to get rid of this issue and implement a reliable system for progress-saving (don't try to say it isn't practical, that is a ridiculous statement).


There is a reliable system and it's called hibernation. Uses very little electricity.
[Aug 31, 2006 5:13:24 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day


There are two major reasons to get rid of this issue and implement a reliable system for progress-saving (don't try to say it isn't practical, that is a ridiculous statement).


There is a reliable system and it's called hibernation. Uses very little electricity.


Well unfortunately it still leaves the fan running and people can still hear it. I am insulted that you would provide such a short and justifiable argument for something that I ought to know about already, as your entire answer! I hope that subsequent replies will either address the actual problem I presented, or do a better job of convincing everyone that we don't need checkpoints.

This isn't the place to announce your elitism.
[Aug 31, 2006 5:32:37 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day


There are two major reasons to get rid of this issue and implement a reliable system for progress-saving (don't try to say it isn't practical, that is a ridiculous statement).


There is a reliable system and it's called hibernation. Uses very little electricity.


Well unfortunately it still leaves the fan running and people can still hear it.


Try ear plugs ?

I am insulted

Some people are too easily insulted.


that you would provide such a short and justifiable argument for something that I ought to know about already, as your entire answer!


How am I supposed to know what you know already and don't know yet? Tell ya what, post your phone number and I'll call ya on my dime next time so you can pre-approve my post.

I hope that subsequent replies will either address the actual problem I presented, or do a better job of convincing everyone that we don't need checkpoints.


Ummmm... let's see if I understand you correctly. You're saying we don't need checkpoints at all? Forgive me if that's a stupid question, it's just that I don't know spit about crunching, work units, kumpooters 'n crunchin' and stuff.

This isn't the place to announce your elitism.


Didn't someone say just that to Louis X1V, Roi d'Soleil? Oh never mind, we'll deal with that later. First, tell us all about checkpoints. If you make it real good you can probably get 30 minutes at the podium at Grid World and the BOINC Conference in Geneva in a couple of weeks too.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Former Member at Aug 31, 2006 6:22:09 AM]
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Sekerob
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

Nuzz604,

....lets not argue and show who's got most hair on chest....i win anyway ;>)

Look at what U and Dagorath and Me know about hibernation and your statement that hibernation still leaves the fan running....I've not ever come across a computer like that, but i'm not omniscient. On mine it trundles along for about 1 minutes until the box/cpu temp is down / the hibernation process is complete, then it closes.....it's like the hot car u park in the garage, where the fan should continue for a wee bit before it shuts down.....its protection as heat build up on an acutely stopped process can do odd things....well u know of course.

The DavidHobbs manual in forum-post tells all and more on saving your work without loosing a second and only use ZERO watts in hibernation as the whole memory state is written to disk!!!!!! Proof it to yourself and pull the cable from socket cool

We're here to help u along in the dedication to crunch decease to death.

Signed
The Soother
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sekerob at Aug 31, 2006 9:52:06 AM]
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Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

Hairy Soother,

Yah, I lose the hairy chest contest. Grass does not grow on a well traveled path tongue
Oh, speaking of my girlfriend, her laptop had the same problem as Nuzz604's, the fan ran continually while in hibernation and kept her awake. I gave her the same advice I gave Nuzz640... try ear plugs. She jammed an ear plug into the fan. She is so .... umm... innovative?
[Aug 31, 2006 11:47:44 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
RT
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

Nuzz604

Your post puts everyone that could help you on the defensive at the start so you could reasonably expect some sharp responses.

In my experience, checkpointing is a non-trivial problem. In most processes, there are natural places to checkpoing..upon completing some portion of the problem. Trying to checkpoint at other places gets extraordinarily complicated, error prone and time consuming..to the point of making the process impractical. Note I said impractical...not impossible.

I do not work on the code in any of these projects so I do not know the particulars. I would suggest however that the folks that actually do the coding would love to checkpoint more often for the reasons you have given but deemed it impractical for one reason or another. I trust their judgment since I do not have either the time or understanding to suggest alternatives.

One can imagine that a point exists where enough processing time is lost by everyone checkpointing that it exceeds the time lost by some not completing work units and being reset to zero. Such points exist along the continuum.

Addressing your problem, I don't really see a good solution for you because a faster computer will still have the same problem...just less wall-clock time would be lost each day. If you cannot tolerate the resets and cannot let the machine run 24 hours, perhaps you can run some one of the other worthy distributed computing projects.

Kind Regards and Thank You for "giving it a go".

Edit (spelling ( blushing ) )
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by RT at Aug 31, 2006 2:15:18 PM]
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Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

Robert,

Thank you for finding the words I could not find. You have explained the difficulties associated with checkpointing clearly and concisely, far better than anyone else I have read, far better than I myself could explain. With your permission I would like to pinch a few paragraphs from your post and incorporate them almost verbatim (it's that good, I think) into an article on the topic for WCGwiki.

Nuzz604,

Please stick around and crunch with us. Sorry I ticked you off, sorry my first post didn't meet your needs and expectations. It wasn't meant to incite or insult, I was genuinely trying to be helpful. My second post? Well, I never walk away from a brawl, ain't the cowboy way, and I think there is a bit of that in you too. Chin up, keep crunching.
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Sekerob
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

Dagorath,

took me a while to recover from your risposta......as i understand / as is inferred about state of your chest being a trodden lane, your wife / spouse / partner / girlfriend walks all over u (and u love it)

laughing
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[Aug 31, 2006 5:03:35 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

Nuzz604, what actual project is running that does this, and what operating system are you using?

For me, Fight Aids at Home workunits seem to checkpoint very regularly indeed - about every 10 minutes (Edit: Actually, it seems this isn't the case at all crying) . I'm not sure about the Help Defeat Cancer workunits though, as I don't seem to get very many of them, although I've heard they checkpoint far less regularly.

Without meaning to massively patronise you, are you certain you are entering hibernation mode and not standby? I presume you are talking about a Windows machine, right? There is absolutely no reason for a hibernated computer to consume any power at all, as the memory data is written to disk. Simply unplug the computer once it is hibernated, as Sekerob says, if it really is the case that the fan remains on.

I have to say, the effort made in this thread so far to understand your problem and help you has been very disappointing...

Rob
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Former Member at Sep 1, 2006 8:48:13 AM]
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