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Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

She walks all over me in the expensive Italian stiletto heels I buy for her. She looks so good and hurts so bad and yes, I love it pig
[Aug 31, 2006 6:07:44 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

I agree what Nuzz604 said, this is a big proplem and the hibernation isnt really a good solution. Good solution would simply be better coding on these projects. Especially in fah project this seems to be a growing proplem, only in my desktop computer there is about 20-30hours/week just wasted.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Aug 31, 2006 11:36:14 PM]
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Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

Nuzz604, what actual project is running that does this, and what operating system are you using?

For me, Fight Aids at Home workunits seem to checkpoint very regularly indeed - about every 10 minutes. I'm not sure about the Help Defeat Cancer workunits though, as I don't seem to get very many of them, although I've heard they checkpoint far less regularly.

Without meaning to massively patronise you, are you certain you are entering hibernation mode and not standby? I presume you are talking about a Windows machine, right? There is absolutely no reason for a hibernated computer to consume any power at all, as the memory data is written to disk. Simply unplug the computer once it is hibernated, as Sekerob says, if it really is the case that the fan remains on.

I have to say, the effort made in this thread so far to understand your problem and help you has been very disappointing...

Rob


Rob,

Thank you for your help. I am using FightAIDS@Home, and I have only had checkpoints at 33% and 66%. It takes hours to get here, and I am using Windows XP Pro.

And secondly (to my embarassment), I didn't know windows had such a feature. I have only seen it on one or two machines in my lifetime and I had forgotten about it. So I thought it was stand-by. So I apologize for my first reply.
[Aug 31, 2006 11:53:16 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day


One can imagine that a point exists where enough processing time is lost by everyone checkpointing that it exceeds the time lost by some not completing work units and being reset to zero. Such points exist along the continuum.


I think that two checkpoints per unit (if I'm not mistaken) is not enough. If a lot of processing time would be wasted by implementing this, then this could be made available as a separate configuration -only- for those machines that need it. If this is done, everyone should be informed of this to make it more user-friendly. I am sure there are hundreds of users out there who may be quitting for this same reason. They aren't always going to come here and see this thread. I really think that this project can not afford to not do it.
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Sgt.Joe
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

One possible remedy for Nuzz604 is to attempt to establish a time frame for when checkpoints will occur on what ever project he is crunching. Because I only have a limited amount of memory I can only crunch on FAAH. My machine is not too fast so the FAAH units take about 24 hours plus/minus a couple to crunch. There are a number of different checkpoints in the FAAH units as Sekerob has so patiently and eloquently explained (16%, 33%, etc. or even no checkpoint at all). By knowing about what kind of wu my machine is crunching and paying a little bit of attention to where it is I can regulate when I can exit the application and lose the least amount of time. Granted, this is not a seamless couchpotato approach, but it only involves a decision a couple of hours prior to my shutting down at night. Sure, it is not like the 24/7 machines and is not applicable to the no checkpoint units, but still gets most of the jobs completed in a timely manner. Hope this is helpful.
biggrin
Joe

ps to Dagorath: I always heard it as "Grass does not grow on a well used playground"
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Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers*
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retsof
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

That's a thought, but I don't think it can be anticipated. Sure, some checkpoints occur at 33% and 66%. HOWEVER, all workunits are not the same. I have seen some that only have one checkpoint at 50% and a few with none at all. sad I am not sure that all workunits for the same project can be guaranteed to have a certain number of checkpoints. crying

Watch for some new projects coming soon that can run on small computers. Hopefully they will have more checkpoints. laughing

Grass may not grow on a well used playground, but in Texas we have fire ants and killer bees, in addition to the normal wasps, hornets, scorpions and rattlesnakes. One does not linger on the playground for long.

To solve this wasted work problem, the BOINC folks are working on a new version that will wait for a checkpoint before doing a shutdown. That might help.
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SUPPORT ADVISOR
Work+GPU i7 8700 12threads
School i7 4770 8threads
Default+GPU Ryzen 7 3700X 16threads
Ryzen 7 3800X 16 threads
Ryzen 9 3900X 24threads
Home i7 3540M 4threads50%
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by retsof at Sep 1, 2006 2:52:31 AM]
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Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day


One can imagine that a point exists where enough processing time is lost by everyone checkpointing that it exceeds the time lost by some not completing work units and being reset to zero. Such points exist along the continuum.


I think that two checkpoints per unit (if I'm not mistaken) is not enough. If a lot of processing time would be wasted by implementing this, then this could be made available as a separate configuration -only- for those machines that need it. If this is done, everyone should be informed of this to make it more user-friendly. I am sure there are hundreds of users out there who may be quitting for this same reason. They aren't always going to come here and see this thread. I really think that this project can not afford to not do it.


The reality of the situation is that relatively few machines need more checkpoints, just slow machines that canot be left on long enough. The numbers of those machines decreases steadily. Now with the new, low power consumption CPUs coming onto the market and electricity prices going through the roof, the "average machine" is going to get even faster. It's just not worth spending time writing extremely complex code for just a handful of slow, old CPUs that have 1 foot in the trash bin already. It makes far more sense for those CPUs to be put on projects that have smaller work units or work units with more checkpoints. Hibernation is always an option too and I am working to make the "how to hibernate" information easier to find, easier to read, etc. Look for an article on hibernation at WCGwiki this weeken if not later today.

In terms of getting more work done, it makes far more sense for the programmers to spend their time writing optimised code that takes advantage of features found in new CPUs, SSE2 for example. Yes, WCG can afford to exclude old, slow machines because they have 300 new members joining every day, 9000 per month, every month.

I think those who request more checkpoints in FAAH units don't understand the complexity of what they want. It's a million times more complex than saving a file in a word processor, for example. It would be nice if it were not that complex but it is and that fact isn't going to change. It has absolutely nothing to do with bad programming.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Sep 1, 2006 11:52:39 AM]
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Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day


Yes, WCG can afford to exclude old, slow machines because they have 300 new members joining every day, 9000 per month, every month.

WCG is ALSO loosing members every day and last months more people have left than started. Reasons for this development are for example following:
1. wcg does not listen its members opinion and does decisions like cpu throttle.

2. wcg does not listen its members opinions and does decisions like not having enough checkpoints.

I think those who request more checkpoints in FAAH units don't understand the complexity of what they want. It's a million times more complex than saving a file in a word processor, for example. It would be nice if it were not that complex but it is and that fact isn't going to change. It has absolutely nothing to do with bad programming.


3. Lot of the people don't even look in to the forum but for those who will the answers that people are sometimes getting to their questions are more or less insulting their intelligence. "Some people" who answer make weird assumptions about knowledge of other people and this may cause
people either to say something rude back or just leave wcg.
[Sep 3, 2006 6:47:15 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day

I find WCG listen very well. That doesn't always make it possible for them to meet the demands put to them.

All grid projects have a certain amount of attrition. This is caused by people who never got crunching at all, by devices that go offline and are never corrected, and by systems that are retired or reformatted and never have the grid software replaced. Loss due to actual dissatisfaction is probably very small. Such people usually share their unhappiness, whether there is any logic or sound reason behind their problem or not.

WCG cannot and MUST not compromise the science for the sake of massaging the ego of a few members. That said, they want to keep everyone happy if they can. And I'm sure you have noticed that we are past the large work units, and the current FAAH work units checkpoint a little more often.
[Sep 3, 2006 7:04:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
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Re: Tired of starting at 0% each day


Yes, WCG can afford to exclude old, slow machines because they have 300 new members joining every day, 9000 per month, every month.

WCG is ALSO loosing members every day and last months more people have left than started.


Please cite a source that supports your conclusion.


Reasons for this development are for example following:
1. wcg does not listen its members opinion and does decisions like cpu throttle.

2. wcg does not listen its members opinions and does decisions like not having enough checkpoints.


WCG does listen to its members. The checkpoint issue was discussed in this thread already and the reason for checkpoints being the way they are has been clearly explained by knowledgeable people like RT. If you chose not to accept the expert information presented so far and chose to believe the checkpoints should suit your needs first and exclude the needs of the project and most other crunchers then feel free to rant on, we all need a good laugh and you will certainly provide one for us.

I think those who request more checkpoints in FAAH units don't understand the complexity of what they want. It's a million times more complex than saving a file in a word processor, for example. It would be nice if it were not that complex but it is and that fact isn't going to change. It has absolutely nothing to do with bad programming.


3. Lot of the people don't even look in to the forum but for those who will the answers that people are sometimes getting to their questions are more or less insulting their intelligence. "Some people" who answer make weird assumptions about knowledge of other people and this may cause people either to say something rude back or just leave wcg.


That's just the way life is. Some people are too rough, some people are too easily insulted. When you find a solution to that problem please let us know.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Sep 3, 2006 7:37:33 PM]
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