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David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Just need an extra Duron and I can take on CompuDude

laughing
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[Feb 21, 2006 12:48:58 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

I'll bet the guys with the thousand of pounds of industrial servers allocated to this task are a tad peeved


You just need to get one of these.

Of course, mine has 12 GB of RAM, not 2 GB. biggrin But yeah... eight 900 MHz Slot-2 PIII-Xeons running Windows Server 2003 Enterprise with PAE mode to access all that 12 GB of slow PC-100 Registered memory.

So, until BOINC became available, I was using only 1 processor with the UD client. It was rather depressing.

The methods for calculating points is a bit... confusing. UD one way.... BOINC another. It's like adding apples and oranges and hoping to make the result a bananna. Instead you just get a fruit salad. In this case people are wondering where the melon came from. I think I understand it, and then it gets confusing again. It's bringing back some bad memories from math class. What is "X" anyway? And I don't care when the two trains met. Anyway...

Don't mind me.... I'm in a weird mood tonight.


Here's the last 10 days of of results I had with UD....


Date Run Time points results points per result

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2/3/2006 0:001:05:31:13 839 2 419.50
2/2/2006 0:000:17:11:16 488 1 488.00
2/1/2006 0:001:03:45:37 789 2 394.50
1/31/2006 0:001:02:29:32 753 2 376.50
1/30/2006 0:001:04:53:43 821 2 410.50
1/29/2006 0:000:11:57:06 339 1 339.00
1/28/2006 0:001:08:12:13 915 2 457.50
1/27/2006 0:000:23:37:12 671 2 335.50
1/26/2006 0:000:14:30:59 412 1 412.00
1/25/2006 0:001:07:47:39 903 2 451.50

Average points per result ~408




And here are the last 10 days results running BOINC....



Date Run Time points results points per result
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2/20/2006 0:009:18:08:52 6,921 15 461.40
2/19/2006 0:010:04:36:40 7,506 16 469.13
2/18/2006 0:006:16:11:22 5,053 10 505.30
2/17/2006 0:004:06:57:38 3,195 7 456.43
2/16/2006 0:008:12:17:03 6,758 13 519.85
2/15/2006 0:005:23:07:49 4,187 10 418.70
2/14/2006 0:008:05:30:27 5,906 13 454.31
2/13/2006 0:008:12:15:10 6,607 13 508.23
2/12/2006 0:006:23:08:38 5,100 11 463.64
2/11/2006 0:007:22:41:27 5,712 13 439.38

Average points per result ~469




BOINC seems to have an advantage. Unless Microsoft Excel is fibbing to me (it is Microsoft afterall), then the percent difference between the two is ~15%

I guess the percentage of the point increase can really vary depending on the system. This was only a 10 day sample, but it holds with longer duration samples too.

As long as I'm returning valid results that can help people, I'm happy.


The only reason I want to get back to work tomorrow is to setup one of these. Except mine only has eight 550 MHz CPUs with 512k cache. Six or seven years ago, that was a kickin' system. Perhaps it's still useful afterall. biggrin


I'm just happy this grid exisits.

peace
-j
[Feb 21, 2006 2:50:49 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Hi David,

As you rightly say, we could do with some technical imput here from WCG to answer some of the what, whys and maybe's theat are coming up on this thread.

Just one thing though, I notice no-one has commented on my previous post about me getting MORE points with UD from 2 of my machines - am I the only one confused
However I also have 2 PC's running the UD Agent as it gives more points on these than boinc. One is a 1.7Ghz Pentium with 512MB RAM and on average gives about 15% less points with boinc, and the other is a 950 Duron with 384MB RAM, and this gives 50% less points with Boinc!!
So if I was to go solely on the performance of the 2 UD machines, I would be campaigning for the conversion factor to be increased, rather than decreased!! shock


So in my case it averages out - maybe the WCG boffins have found it does across WCG as a whole??

Ady smile
[Feb 21, 2006 5:58:02 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Stage 2 of the experiment

I have suspended all network activity on all agents

(don't worry I'm still crunching)


Once I stop receiving points I'll open up the floodgates and then I will know exactly how many WU's and of what type I have returned to the WCG.

Immediately afterwards shut the sluces and then we will see another lump of WU's apear in my stats and once they have petered out we can compare and contrast in no more that 1000 words on the outcome of the question does WU's in = results on the WCG

Does it sound like a plan?

wink

Dave
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[Feb 21, 2006 7:00:44 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
knreed
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

I would put my money on double accounting for the FAAH work units on account that 2 files are uploaded to IBM from BOINC instead of the gzip'ed up single file from the UD agent


BOINC grants credit for the completed workunit not for each file. The validator for FightAIDS@Home processes both files at the same time and awards credit once.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by knreed at Feb 21, 2006 3:46:51 PM]
[Feb 21, 2006 3:21:36 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
knreed
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

However the FAAH exe's don't have the same filenames in UD and BOINC agents so they may be different.


A rose by any other name will still smell as sweet.

The primary difference between the executables on BOINC and on UD are the code changes that were required to resolve differences in how the API's are difference for checkpointing, file access and reporting progress.

The science application will be run at essentially the same level of effectiveness on both platforms.
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spikey_richie
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Can anyone guess when I converted 2 of my work horses to BOINC?

There's a prize in it not


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[Edit 1 times, last edit by spikey_richie at Feb 21, 2006 3:51:21 PM]
[Feb 21, 2006 3:50:34 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Just a little update on my tests:

On my Windows XP box using the AMD AlthonXP 2000+:
Average points per result returned UD: 203
Average points per result returned Boinc: 390

So almost but not quite a factor of 2 increase in points allocated using Boinc, which runs inline with other peoples findings, and I have no perceptable change in the average number of units I am crunching each day cool

For my next trick I shall switch OSs (always useful having windows and linux installed on the same machine biggrin ) and see if I still get the same sorts of results for Boinc on Linux.

On my straight Linux box:
Average points per result returned Boinc: 118 shock

I need to have a look at this box and see what is in it, [since it was one I was given] thinking

The moral of the story so far being if you are after points run Boinc on windows, and if you are crunching for the good of the cause it don't matter a fig which you run. hugs
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Feb 21, 2006 5:44:31 PM]
[Feb 21, 2006 4:50:16 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Hi Batchoy

I agree entirely with this statement

The moral of the story so far being if you are after points run Boinc on windows, and if you are crunching for the good of the cause it don't matter a fig which you run

we've been assured by knreed that the two agents perform pretty much identically apart from the interworkings with their different surroundings


I'm sorry but I can't help myself I've been testing software in one form or another for the last 20 years and sometimes it's worth digging that bit deeper for the gold.

I need to know why more results are being generated if the X86 extensions are not in there and it would be a nice to have if the points per day score of your cruncher at least tried to align itself with the good old days of UD.

The experiment continues I've got 865,999 points at the moment and a nice batch of Work Units to send into the sausage machine. If no work unit have been processed by the 6am update tomorrow (statistically this is probably as close as I could get to having purged my queue of WU waiting to have their points added to my total)

I'll then unleash the Work Unit stampeed and we'll see what happens

The suspense wink
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[Feb 21, 2006 6:21:06 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

still on 865,999 at the 6pm update it's looking clean

a couple more of those just to be sure
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[Feb 21, 2006 6:24:35 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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