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David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Cheers Batchoy

5 out of 6 of mine are Athlon XP's (A couple are early Sempron's but they are just XP's in disguise) most have 512Mb Ram and my best UD overall rating on any box is 158 (126 - 158 is the range) so I wasn't against the end stops with UD either

I'm now 442nd in the world shock up 37 places in the last 3 days (and that's a huge gain in 450th Land)

Just look at this with no hardware change at all!!! That last points block still has another 6 hours worth to be added at midnight



The toothless gap was a particularly bad day for me beat up

Folks your thoughts and observations please

Dave

There's nothing like a bit of backwards compatability and this is nothing like a bit of backwards compatability biggrin
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by David Autumns at Feb 20, 2006 8:45:15 PM]
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Dave --

Something else is also happening.

I switched one of my two systems over to BOINC on February 8 (I left the other running UD so that I could answer questions regarding UD in the forums). You can see the uplift in points, but I have also seen a consistantly higher number of results returned since then. Does this imply that BOINC is able to process the work units more efficiently? It certainly appears so.
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David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

I must admit I'm getting the same effect Dave with the results but we have been assured that the FAAH.exe bit of the program is the same in both UD and BOINC and that the different agents are just a wrapper for that code so there shouldn't be any change in the output.

However the FAAH exe's don't have the same filenames in UD and BOINC agents so they may be different. We always knew that the UD exe's were not optimised for the processor they were running on and so they didn't have some of the potentially useful number crunching extensions such as all those MMX, SIMD, SSE and 3dNow that Intel and AMD have added to the X86 codebase since 1996. Maybe in BOINC these features have been enabled giving rise to the improved efficiency which would be great news and we have really earned those points smile

As yet we've had no feedback from above in this thread to say differently.

The FAAH code in BOINC returns 2 files back to base after each work unit maybe these are both being counted as results and having 2 lots of run time and points being allocated as a consequence, a little bug'et.


I think I have 3 maybe's in this post already.

It would be good to have some input from those who are really in the know from IBM.

Take care Dave B

Dave A
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David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

btw run time will never match that on UD.

UD used wall clock time whereas BOINC counts time actually running on the CPU

With my 6 boxes with UD you could get 6 days a day. With BOINC yesterday I managed to get 5 days 23 hours 2 mins and 55 seconds

So across all of those PC they were doing something else other than BOINC for only 57 Mins and 5 seconds yesterday.

Just don't tell my Boss wink

LOL

Dave
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

I attempted to point out what Dave Bell has illustrated above in the quote below
BOINC rewards your full performance, UD only rewards your partial performance
This is a level playing field Gentlemen
You have the choice, to enable you to overcome the limitations of performance capping
In my humble opinion everyone should switch over to BOINC for 2 reasons
1. Members using power house PC's will get higher rewards for their contribution to this effort
2. In a high degree of cases throughput of results will be increased substancially, allowing us to move onto another worthy project a lot sooner


Ady reported the same findings in his quote below
Hope you dont mind me popping in here,

I have to agree with you there. I found a healthy increase in my results and points when i installed BOINC. (Athlon XP 3200 @2.36Ghz, 1GB RAM) I would not use the UD Agent again on this pc.

As Ady said earlier, 'time moves on, and we have to move with it.'

Your reply in the following post in the MOT thread was "NOT"

I am very pleased to report that I getting an average of 70% increase in results returned, since installing BOINC
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Former Member at Feb 20, 2006 11:36:03 PM]
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David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

Graham my "not" was on account that these facts may not be facts

My PC was not performance capped (points wise) as you can see from the above I am not against then end stops with UD so I haven't just been given a chassis to handle the incredible power at my disposal by using BOINC a la your Mini reference.

IBM have so far told us that the code running the crunching in both agents is the same so just by measuring points differently shouldn't give rise to an increased throughput of results enabling us to move on to another worthy project

Either they are mis measuring the return of the results as I have surmised above or the code is now able to take advantage of the X86 extensions on todays processors in which case we should all hot foot to BOINC

These 2 explanation are the only one's that hold water at the mo

Our PC's have never been stymied by the UD agent however fast they have run (on a single core) by the points system of UD

Dave
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David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

There is another possibility

The work unit slicing and dicing

The work units are prepared by a "heuristic" to be around the 10 hour mark on your average PC by IBM for the UD agent

The BOINC agent claims to be able to download an amount of days worth of Work Units in advance (how it does this when the WU's are non-deterministic is beyond me - those estimated run times are never correct sometimes the end time goes down faster than time other times you gain 2 seconds to the end for each second of crunching - this we have always known)

Maybe (that's my 4th) the hopper of work to be done by the BOINC client is chopped up in a different fashion - although even as I write this my experience (so far) with BOINC doesn't suggest they are any shorter

I would put my money on double accounting for the FAAH work units on account that 2 files are uploaded to IBM from BOINC instead of the gzip'ed up single file from the UD agent
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David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

LOL

10,875 points today from the same boxes that used to give me 3,900

I'm up 4 places in the last 6 hours

It's way out of whack

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Something needs doing and it needs doing soon otherwise this situation won't just be a blip that the averages will iron out.

We can't compare member with member at the moment as some of us are using the turbo button on our PC's

remember those biggrin

Dave
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

I'm at about 133%, at a guess. Nifty.
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David Autumns
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Re: Are points being awarded fairly?

113th in the world yesterday with just 5 1/2 PC's on the go yesterday - I haven't yet managed to crunch on the train

and 1 of them cost me no more than £126 to build wink

and non is faster than a 3200+ Athlon XP (single core and 32 bit)

I'm still on nforce2 Mobo's I think they have nforce 4's and even 5's now for intels

LOL it's farcical

I'll bet the guys with the thousand of pounds of industrial servers allocated to this task are a tad peeved

biggrin

Dave cool
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