Index  | Recent Threads  | Unanswered Threads  | Who's Active  | Guidelines  | Search
 

Quick Go »
No member browsing this thread
Thread Status: Active
Total posts in this thread: 57
Posts: 57   Pages: 6   [ Previous Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 11612 times and has 56 replies Next Thread
Sandvika
Advanced Cruncher
United Kingdom
Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Post Count: 112
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

Hat off to alternety for challenging the status quo.

I've been participating in grid computing since the SETI@Home search for extraterrestrial intelligence, but switched to World Community Grid, initially with the United Devices client, in 2007 as soon as I became aware of it because, unlike SETI, it could potentially benefit humanity directly. I had a long hiatus because my previous computer's CPU fan screamed like a ninja when running flat out and indeed it became unstable and crashed when the cooling was challenged further by warm weather.

So, having built my new computer with silent operation a key criterion (it's less noisy than my ceiling fan) I fired up WCG and the BOINC client and was frankly amazed that it had barely changed in almost 7 years. That's an eternity in computing. It is arcane.

I was very happy to crunch for cancer because it claimed my sister at a very young age, but when the Ebola project was announced, it grabbed my attention because medical professionals are putting their lives on the line right now to try to contain the disease. To me, it has an urgency greater than any other WCG project that preceded it, so provides a very compelling call to action. I'm sure thousands of people are responding to this call.

However, getting Ebola work units is not for the faint hearted and will "outsmart" most. I expected it to be click and forget but that produced nothing. Well, I've been troubleshooting computers for 35 years so I rose to the challenge, dived into the forum for the first time (it is arcane too), got help, offered help (got insulted too) and now I'm on the project, having studied the project's behaviour in the client's event log and adapted my client configuration accordingly. Instead of click and forget, it became a strategy game to enable participation by competing successfully for the dearth of work units.

I think the obstacles I overcame to be able to participate will deter most people, so it makes the project a PR faux pas. In 2014 you don't get a second chance - your new volunteers are gone and you won't see them again. Which is alternety's point.

What would I expect to see in 2014? A landing page, with a welcome video, enabling me to download a client for my platform, (from the various app stores where applicable), then everything else, including registration, performed in the client in a very simple and straightforward manner that is as consistent as possible across platforms so that volunteers can help each other out.

BOINC is anything but that, it is no longer fit for purpose. No disrespect to Tullus, who is technically correct, but I came to replace my computer idle time with valuable work, not to sign up for an open source software development project. It seems to me that the much-needed new generation BOINC could be Berkeley undergraduates' dissertation project. In fact, get a few teams to do it and see whose is best! They can graduate and have the additional satisfaction of making a significant difference to this project.
----------------------------------------

[Dec 22, 2014 11:47:04 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
sftwengnr
Cruncher
United States
Joined: Dec 7, 2014
Post Count: 2
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

I had a similar issue and I think what the user is looking for are some bread crumbs. It took me sometime to ascertain that this site https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/research/oet1/overview.do really was engaged in the project I was interested in. I did not realize that when you signed up for this project you were actually participating in several projects aka tasks; fightAIDS@Home, Uncovering Genome Mysteries, Outsmart Ebola Together, etc.

there were several research projects being described at this page but there was no connection to directly sign you up for the projects nor was there a description that made it clear that the world community grid was indeed running these projects.

When I went to the site http://boincstats.com/en/bam/signup and snooped around I actually found the world community grid project. And then it was only after I signed up for it that I saw via the BOINCManager what tasks were involved with the project. And that was only after snooping around with the buttons.

I am on board now but I feel we need to make the steps much easier to get people associated with a project. I initially was looking for the individual project names of FightAIDS@Home, Outsmart Ebola Together, etc. And these are not readily apparent when looking for projects to sign up for.

My suggestion is have the World Community Grid page identify that this project has the following sub projects aka tasks as part of the grid Project. Then explain and provide a link to the BOINCStats and show with pictures or steps how to find the World Community Grid on the page and how to assign yourself to that project.

If some time could be spent dumbing the instructions down and making them easier to follow, I bet there would be a larger audience signing up.

My $0.02.

Bob
[Dec 25, 2014 12:43:55 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
rembertw
Senior Cruncher
Belgium
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Post Count: 275
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

From what I read, I assume that alternety has as complete answer to his/her initial questions and remarks.

I mean to see a call to create a public discussion of sorts. Or database, or seperate forum or whatever. This I leave to others. WCG is what it is, with it's pro's and con's. It's good enough for me, although improvement is certainly possible.

I came here to help clarify, not to engave an "in depth" discussion.

Fun to all with expanding this topic, and merry Christmas for those here to who happen to be Christian.
[Dec 25, 2014 10:49:12 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
theodolite
Advanced Cruncher
Joined: Apr 11, 2014
Post Count: 119
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

That most popular sport here at WCG is alive and well: Whine, whine, whine. Thank goodness only an insignificant portion of members read the forums, otherwise there would be nobody left.

On the WCG main page is the tab labeled Research. This page describes the projects under the WCG umbrella. If you miss this page, guess what? You don't learn there are 5 current projects. Complaining there is no information available is no excuse for your failure to read the screen. Several hundred thousand people figured it out on their own.. biggrin

Over the years, I have successfully installed WCG on 71 systems. Nobody had to help me install and get it running. I had some help on the details of the settings, but the install IS ACTUALLY QUITE INTUITIVE. A few people who think otherwise do not make it so. While one person who is having trouble deserves help, this thread is totally bogus in its premise. devilish

Most people that have problems are those who cannot/do not read the screen or refuse to follow directions. This is a common disease when it comes to IT. The majority of computer users, of which WCG provides a fluid sampling of society, truly believe that error messages and instructions on how to use computer software have been written in order to be meaningless. I have found that most software designers write pretty good instructions. cool

Here at WCG, the forums are filled by users who believe they are required to report every message they see. Many posts are written with such intensity as to predict the entire collapse of the WCG system. They have not realized that 90% of all the work is completed satisfactorily by users who never feel compelled to report, with the most alarming verbiage, transient and normal messages that truly require no user intervention. wink

So keep up your whining about the sins that WCG has committed against you, which help us understand the mistakes you have made. laughing
[Dec 26, 2014 4:28:30 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
KWSN-A Shrubbery
Senior Cruncher
Joined: Jan 8, 2006
Post Count: 476
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

Hush you, histrionics are good exercise.
----------------------------------------

[Dec 26, 2014 8:37:24 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
Master Cruncher
US
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
Post Count: 2129
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

That most popular sport here at WCG is alive and well: Whine, whine, whine. Thank goodness only an insignificant portion of members read the forums, otherwise there would be nobody left.

On the WCG main page is the tab labeled Research. This page describes the projects under the WCG umbrella. If you miss this page, guess what? You don't learn there are 5 current projects. Complaining there is no information available is no excuse for your failure to read the screen. Several hundred thousand people figured it out on their own.. biggrin

Over the years, I have successfully installed WCG on 71 systems. Nobody had to help me install and get it running. I had some help on the details of the settings, but the install IS ACTUALLY QUITE INTUITIVE. A few people who think otherwise do not make it so. While one person who is having trouble deserves help, this thread is totally bogus in its premise. devilish

Most people that have problems are those who cannot/do not read the screen or refuse to follow directions. This is a common disease when it comes to IT. The majority of computer users, of which WCG provides a fluid sampling of society, truly believe that error messages and instructions on how to use computer software have been written in order to be meaningless. I have found that most software designers write pretty good instructions. cool

Here at WCG, the forums are filled by users who believe they are required to report every message they see. Many posts are written with such intensity as to predict the entire collapse of the WCG system. They have not realized that 90% of all the work is completed satisfactorily by users who never feel compelled to report, with the most alarming verbiage, transient and normal messages that truly require no user intervention. wink

So keep up your whining about the sins that WCG has committed against you, which help us understand the mistakes you have made. laughing

You've apparently missed one of the main points of the OP and a point that has been raised repeatedly throughout this thread, specifically, that managing the projects one works on is anything but simple OR intuitive.

Granted, if all you want to do is sign up for WCG, then things are fairly straight forward, but the fact of the matter is that almost no one coming here for the first time know WCG from shinola. The reason they come here is for a specific project. So when they see their computer working on everything BUT what they signed up for, that's a problem.

And as I pointed out earlier in this thread as well as many times before, people have been voting with their feet and leaving WCG for years. So obviously things aren't nearly as sanguine as you would make them out to be.

But hey, I guess that just makes me another whiner. Good news though - if we keep losing people, in another 10 years all of the whiners and almost everyone else will be gone. You should buy some champagne now and start crossing off the days on your calendar. cool
----------------------------------------


[Dec 27, 2014 5:29:30 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Former Member
Cruncher
Joined: May 22, 2018
Post Count: 0
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

I was not going to butt in again, but theodolite, thank you. You have just provided the quintessential example of precisely what I have been talking about.

Oh, and I just got an email chiding me for not producing work. Fortunately they had an "unsubscribe".
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Dec 29, 2014 8:04:11 PM]
[Dec 29, 2014 7:52:38 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
nanoprobe
Master Cruncher
Classified
Joined: Aug 29, 2008
Post Count: 2998
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

This thread only proves the age old adage you can't please everyone. The older, disgruntled, retiring, whatever people are leaving while the next generation would rather play video games or make excuses than contribute to bettering mankind.

I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots. Albert Einstein

----------------------------------------
In 1969 I took an oath to defend and protect the U S Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and Domestic. There was no expiration date.


[Jan 8, 2015 10:17:29 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
theodolite
Advanced Cruncher
Joined: Apr 11, 2014
Post Count: 119
Status: Offline
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

Alternaty, thanks for your support on this subject
[Jan 12, 2015 2:28:46 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
twilyth
Master Cruncher
US
Joined: Mar 30, 2007
Post Count: 2129
Status: Offline
Project Badges:
Reply to this Post  Reply with Quote 
Re: Just to unintuitive to participate

This thread only proves the age old adage you can't please everyone. The older, disgruntled, retiring, whatever people are leaving while the next generation would rather play video games or make excuses than contribute to bettering mankind.

I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots. Albert Einstein

At this point, I don't think there are any minor changes or tweaks that will make much of a difference. Just look at how many people are still doing work for the Ripple and Reseach Support Coin teams.

Ripple Labs terminated their giveaway almost a year ago and yet it is still one of the largest teams in terms of daily output. RSC's crap-coin doesn't even have a market and they're also one of the largest teams.

This just goes to show that the vast majority of people don't pay much attention to the project once they've installed BOINC.

The main issue seems to be the fact that only a small portion of the people who come here initially actually stay. Active users are only about 15% of total users. What's more, thought the number of active users has seen some improvement over the last month, the active user numbers have already started to decline again.

Why is that? We'll probably never know since people either don't know about the forum or can't be bothered to come here and post. At the very least, we need to reach out to people who register but don't come back and have an ongoing survey that we link to in any emails we send out so that those who actually are interest can just click a link and offer their opinions.

Doing a survey once every 10 years isn't going to cut it. This has to be an ongoing process so that we can find out what is wrong and try to fix it.
----------------------------------------


[Jan 12, 2015 6:38:02 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Posts: 57   Pages: 6   [ Previous Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 | Next Page ]
[ Jump to Last Post ]
Post new Thread