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World Community Grid Forums
Category: Support
Forum: Suggestions / Feedback
Thread: Just to unintuitive to participate |
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 57
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I came across this site and it seemed interesting and useful. I mentally selected the things I wasted to support. Then I could not figure out how to do it.
----------------------------------------I have now spent several hours trying to participate. I have created an account. I have downloaded software. Your software will not work with a common Windows password manager - LastPass. I initially got a list of projects from the client. None were the items I had initially seen on the Worldcommunitygrid site that is supposed to suck in participants. When I eventually got to the WCG web site again, it simply started to download a project on AIDS; in which I have no interest. I have no idea why it did that. There was no intuitive (to me) way to stop it from downloading or choosing what I wanted. I finally just canceled the application. Things happen without the intent of the potential participant. Because there is no explanation. UNIX thinking and terminology is rife - not a good way to attract Windows systems. What on earth suggested that the block above where I am typing is rational, attractive, or even visually acceptable? OK, someone is a cute programmer. I can't ad dashes or indents. I tried switching to Enhanced Mode - no change. And what are tags? I am not positively impressed. Here is what I expect if I am going to participate in allowing you to use my computer resources: A simple and intuitive way to pick a project and support it. I don't care about some **** points or groups or all the clever uses and things, or anything else except allowing you to use my computer resources. Or any of the other assorted crap I have wandered through. I will not delve through large sets of documentation containing more information than I would ever care about and not making it easy to just do it. I could care less about learning. It is simply not worth my time. Six simple steps perhaps? Create an account. Download/install program. Simple screen asking what project you wish to support (preferable including the ones on the initial world community site). Simple item selection followed by application download. Simple preferences allocating what resources you are allowed to use. Never issuing messages that make no sense at all (e.g., something along the lines of stuff is stopped for benchmarking for 45 minutes followed by something else in a few minutes). You have got to get some human interface people on this instead of programmers (more specifically, I suspect, UNIX programmers) For me, you have utterly and completely failed in recruiting my resources. I have no interest in learning about the wonders of your system. Just to help. With intuitive and simple screens that explain what is going to happen if you say yes. Fifteen minutes - 30 minutes. No more. You need to apply some of your resources to making this easy for joe sixpak to participate. Do not center everything you do to some sort of deeply involved hobbyist. You need an Ug - me want help, then me go kill dinner, eat raw with beer - process. As my last interaction with your system, I will now uninstall your workstation software and forget about the whole thing. *Edited to appropriate forum language - Erika! [Edit 1 times, last edit by ErikaT at Dec 8, 2014 11:51:50 AM] |
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7581 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I am going to try to help you. This should help you get to just the projects in which you are interested.
----------------------------------------1. Log into the WCG site 2. Once in your account, look in the upper right hand corner of the screen where you will see four links "Forums", "Help", "Settings", and "Download." 3. Click on the word "Settings". 4. This will bring you to a page with choices on the left hand side. 5. Click on the fourth one down called "Device Manager". 6. A sub choice will appear under "Device Manager" called "Device Profiles". 7. Click on "Device Profiles". 8. Now you should see four device profile names called "Default", "Work", "Home", and "School". 9. I will assume you only have one device and it is already under the "Default" profile. 10. Click on the word "Default". 11. This brings you to another page where you can specify which projects you want to run. 12. Click on the option for "Custom profile" 13. Go down the page until you see a section called "Available Projects" 14. Here click on only the project(s) in which you are interested. 15. Go to the bottom of the page and click on the button marked "Save". Now you should only get work for the project(s) you have selected and not for the ones in which you are not interested. If you have questions about the other options available, do not hesitate to ask and most people will be glad to try and help. Cheers
Sgt. Joe
*Minnesota Crunchers* |
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twilyth
Master Cruncher US Joined: Mar 30, 2007 Post Count: 2129 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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The OP has a point and it's way too easy for people who have been here for a while to overlook just how complicated it is to get anything done on this site. That goes from something as simple as posting a message to managing devices and projects.
----------------------------------------Once you get used to doing things in a certain way, you tend to forget just how convoluted they really are, but if you ever try to explain it to someone, it becomes readily apparent. I mean should it really require 15 steps to do something as simple as decide which projects you want to work on? OK sure, part of that is the fact that we're stuck with using BOINC. But we could easily send people an email that directs them to a nice java GUI that simplifies the process for them. And maybe with a little coaxing, we could get BOINC to send people to such a link depending on what project they pick. The fact of the matter is that if you want normal people to run WCG as a fire and forget type of project, we're light years away from that goal. And until we can offer something like that, we're going to lose most of the people that might have some initial interest.   [Edit 1 times, last edit by twilyth at Dec 6, 2014 6:59:06 AM] |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Wow. Thanks, but what twilyth said. That is exactly my point. Once exposed to the initial process, the onset of disinterest can be sudden and complete. And you need processors. I was going to try to delete my account as well (if it is even possible) but I left it live just to see the responses to my post. The group should really take what twilyth said to heart and act on it.
----------------------------------------Maybe most people do not react the way I have. How many application downloads or new web site accounts are never subsequently used for work? Number of downloads per time vs new functional users in the same time with a little extension on the end of the activity start timeline could be an interesting number. Even the names of things will tend to confuse a Windows user. E.g., Device Manager has a special meaning. The messages are also confusing. After I said run the benchmark I got a message that something had stopped. Waited for a while and saw no activity. Later when I was on the web site I noticed my cpu usage at around 100%. I saw multiple instances of your software running (I presume this was the benchmark, but I am not positive). It could have been work since there was something for the AIDS project downloaded that I did not want and could not stop. A final observation. You can't even get out of the mess cleanly. Your uninstaller does a very very bad job of removing stuff the instillation had created. Had I not installed it with Revo (amongst other things, an installation monitor and enhancer), I would have had a very large number of pieces of junk on my machine. Poor manners, although not necessarily rare. Addendum: After this post I went back to the forum and started reading a thread on why people were leaving. And there was twilyth again being rational. I like your thinking twilyth. You are an asset. And hit the nail on the head. I would never consider this as a hobby. It appears there are quite a few that do; and that is fine. But you need to make it essentially an unattended background process. The PC software plays with the backend database processes. If I were doing this and I had to go pick and choose among download packets, of have a couple of weeks of processing discarded because it took to long I would simply say - nah, never mind what I would say. I maintain, that to get you participants and keep them the things I noted originally and what that thread about losing participants adds. From the discussion in that second thread, it would appear these things are not optional, but a way to survive on a ship with slowly leaking holes. And that would be a great loss to society. [Edit 1 times, last edit by Former Member at Dec 6, 2014 7:27:42 PM] |
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Sgt.Joe
Ace Cruncher USA Joined: Jul 4, 2006 Post Count: 7581 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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A final observation. You can't even get out of the mess cleanly. Your uninstaller does a very very bad job of removing stuff the instillation had created. I am not sure how you tried to uninstall your application, but I have not had this kind of trouble. I have had installs on Win 2000, Win XP, Win Vista and Win 7. I have not had any trouble getting the application removed from any of them using the Windows uninstaller. Computers are not perfect and neither are the programmers, nor the users. With Windows , it has been mostly set and forget. (Now Linux is another story.) Don't be afraid to ask for help, we all have to ask sometimes. Cheers
Sgt. Joe
----------------------------------------*Minnesota Crunchers* [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sgt.Joe at Dec 6, 2014 7:38:53 PM] |
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ca05065
Senior Cruncher Joined: Dec 4, 2007 Post Count: 325 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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There is a simpler menthod for choosing sub-projects for most users with only one PC.
Login to WCG Select 'My Contribution' near the top of the page. Select 'My Projects' on left hand side of page. Select the sub-projects and conditions you require; scroll down and click save. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
I completely agree with alternety and twilyth.
WCG and BOINC are geared towards techies. In this day and age of apps and touch-screens, our process is way too complicated. I took some time off from WCG, and when I decided to come back, it took me quite a bit of time of time and effort to tweak the project. This should be any harder than ordering something from Amazon for the first time... simple step-by-step, yes or no, fill in the blanks, choose this or that. |
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Former Member
Cruncher Joined: May 22, 2018 Post Count: 0 Status: Offline |
Sgt.Joe - I uninstalled it the same way I have uninstalled anything in Windows for many years. As I noted in the referenced post, I use Revo. One of those programs that every Windows user should have. For details, go to the REVO site.
Short form answer to your question - First, you have never this problem because you are unlikely to be aware of remaining junk. I used Revo. This application, when started and used to start an install file, will record everything it can of the things the install installs. If something needs to be uninstalled, you start Revo , tell it you want to uninstall something (does not matter if Revo installed it or not). It will bring up a list of ALL the applications installed in Windows and you just click on the application you want to go away. Revo then runs the uninstall program that all Windows applications should have. After that has been done it will, at your request, do various scans of the entire system locating fragments left behind in the registry or as now orphaned files or folders. It presents lists of what it finds and allows you to accept or reject each or all items. Then the target is really uninstalled. It is quite common for included uninstallers to be quite incomplete about removing the trash they left laying about. I use Revo for every installation that I can start from my PC; particularly unknown ones. And every uninstall is done through Revo. No downside to using Revo except buying the program (and I seem to recollect they have a free version). Re: ask for help. My point was that I should not have to do that. |
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Falconet
Master Cruncher Portugal Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Post Count: 3295 Status: Offline Project Badges: 
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I just uninstalled BOINC. Only thing left were the data files, the project ones.
----------------------------------------To me, it isn't a bother since they are in another partition and stay there when I have to reinstall Windows so I don't have to reattach to all the projects and can even continue previous tasks. I was 14 when I joined WCG. Didn't have any issues. To stop receiving tasks from projects other than the ones you have selected, click "Settings"--> Device Manager-->select the profile next to your device which is called default--> deselect the "If there is no work available..." checkbox and save the profile (scroll down the page and click save). All done. You will ONLY receive tasks from the projects you have selected. Regarding the CPU benchmarks and lack of explanations: if it failed, your computer, from my experience, was probably very busy. A benchmark takes 30 seconds and the CPU usage goes to 100% for just a few. Also, the software is developed by the Berkeley University so direct that complaint to them. WCG and IBM merely add a new icon and some images and audit the code for security purposes. Also, why do you need a password managing software for BOINC? If you are logged in, you just need to download the software from the website and it will automatically connect to your account (at least it did recently with some new machines I attached). Sgt. Joe has always seemed to me like a power user. Fairly sure he is aware of what BOINC leaves behind or not. Also you will notice how every single software leaves something behind, be it files or registry keys. I've downloaded thousands of software over the years and I can't remember any that fully uninstalled (Chrome left most executables and all of the cache behind despite me wanting it to delete the cache which the software offered to do) AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz [Edit 1 times, last edit by Falconet at Dec 6, 2014 10:31:49 PM] |
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Falconet
Master Cruncher Portugal Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Post Count: 3295 Status: Offline Project Badges:
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I just created a new account.
----------------------------------------I entered the desired username, password, etc; then I selected the projects I wanted; then I downloaded the software; and then I was told to explore the WCG. Signing up and setting up the software so that it downloads tasks is easy. The list you saw are a bunch of projects that use the BOINC software but are not related to WCG. All you needed to do, as you discovered, was to select World Community Grid and enter you username and password (or the software automatically attached). Done. UPDATE: Okey, I installed BOINC in Windows 8.1 VM and upon the first BOINC startup it asks you to enter your WCG username and password. AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 6C/12T 3.2 GHz - 85W AMD Ryzen 5 2500U 4C/8T 2.0 GHz - 28W AMD Ryzen 7 7730U 8C/16T 3.0 GHz [Edit 1 times, last edit by Falconet at Dec 6, 2014 10:47:38 PM] |
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