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Mysteron347
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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

Would seem that a golden opportunity to notify crunchers of this outage via the BOINC 6+ 'Notices' facility has been let slip by,

The only people aware are the forum-users, apparently. I'm not worried - I've a full-ish buffer; bit of a worry that it now appears that comms have been deferred for 3 hours at the behest of the server....

It would seem that it would be useful if a 'maintenance' facility was inbuilt into BOINC such that the buffered work could be temporarily increased by the expected-down-time on notification from the project; similarly attempts to communicate with the project could also be suspended for the outage period.
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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

How would you do that BOINC inbuilt maint-mode to temp buffer increase for members that not only crunch at WCG? The design of BOINC is that if it cant fetch work from project A that is due time, it will go to project B. There's even a "Backup Project" facility to define project at zero share that only will be asked for work when "active" projects have none available or are down.

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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

Not many threads listed when I clicked on 'recent threads', this thread was not listed, just a few threads. I found this one only by manually going to 'boinc agent support' threads/forum first. I wonder if this is related to the maintenance planned.
[Jan 13, 2012 3:16:32 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

I'm sorry maybe it was working fine, what happens is that the pages do not contain many threads. So I just have to keep selecting the next page of threads
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Mysteron347
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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

How would you do that BOINC inbuilt maint-mode to temp buffer increase for members that not only crunch at WCG?


Completely the wrong question.

The real question is what happens with a processor dedicated to one project - we can ignore that small proportion micromanaged by the forum-frequenting addicts.

With the current system, the machine goes to idle when the work runs out because there's no more coming from the project. BOINC should simply increase the work buffer to cover the downtime and reduce it to its original value when the maintenance period finishes. Remember that after the maintenance commences, the client will make no further requests to that project for more work since BOINC knows that the project is down. Consequently, work will only be downloaded to cover the outage.

If a client is crunching more than one project, then the buffer should be extended to the maintenance end-time and required-work calculated for the project-in-maintenance, with due regard to the processor-availabilty schedule. Multiply that time by the fraction that BOINC knows the project in question receives for the installation and call for THAT amount of extra work for the project undergoing maintenance. In fact, the dedicated processor does the same calculation, but with a fraction of 1.

The issue is far more with dedicated machines than with those crunching more than one project. What I have suggested won't affect non-dedicated machines - existing mechanisms will ensure they aren't allowed to remain idle. It's the ones that have nothing else to do that would be affected.
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JmBoullier
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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

How can we get a WU downloaded, since the file system is up, if the scheduler is down. Doesn't a user have to request a WU via the scheduler before the file system sends the WU?
Suppose you have a big farm of crunchers all behind the same router and you discover the need to stock WUs minutes before the scheduler shuts down.
If you use a tool like BOINCTasks (for example) you may be able to get enough new WUs quite quickly for all your rigs before the shutdown, but there will be large queues of data files to download (the Transfer tab of the Advanced view).
My understanding is that these data files will go on downloading as long as necessary. As soon as your client has received the new WUs information from the scheduler it has all necessary information for initialising the download of the necessary data files from the file server.
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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

Let's hope all team leaders and people know enough not to run out of work early in the shutdown. If only 10% of the world's devices are wihtout work, it means that close to 194,137 devices will not be helping, multiplied by 10 hours = 1,941,375 cpu hours sad
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JmBoullier
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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

If only 10% of the world's devices are wihtout work, it means that close to 194,137 devices will not be helping, multiplied by 10 hours = 1,941,375 cpu hours sad
Or 221 CPU years, which is 60 % of Saturday last week, so your estimate is dead wrong. smile

Fortunately (for this case, not in general) there are not 1,941,375 active devices in WCG, it's probably closer to 10 % of this number shown in the Global Stats page. And the loss would be only 22 CPU years, which is already too much if it can be avoided.
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[Jan 13, 2012 5:28:35 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

How would you do that BOINC inbuilt maint-mode to temp buffer increase for members that not only crunch at WCG?


Completely the wrong question.

The real question is what happens with a processor dedicated to one project - we can ignore that small proportion micromanaged by the forum-frequenting addicts.

With the current system, the machine goes to idle when the work runs out because there's no more coming from the project. BOINC should simply increase the work buffer to cover the downtime and reduce it to its original value when the maintenance period finishes. Remember that after the maintenance commences, the client will make no further requests to that project for more work since BOINC knows that the project is down. Consequently, work will only be downloaded to cover the outage.

If a client is crunching more than one project, then the buffer should be extended to the maintenance end-time and required-work calculated for the project-in-maintenance, with due regard to the processor-availabilty schedule. Multiply that time by the fraction that BOINC knows the project in question receives for the installation and call for THAT amount of extra work for the project undergoing maintenance. In fact, the dedicated processor does the same calculation, but with a fraction of 1.

The issue is far more with dedicated machines than with those crunching more than one project. What I have suggested won't affect non-dedicated machines - existing mechanisms will ensure they aren't allowed to remain idle. It's the ones that have nothing else to do that would be affected.

The wrong question? You propose that WCG patronizes the volunteers and overrides their settings! There's no way that WCG can presume to increase cache, even temporarily, let alone it having any effect when local preferences override these settings and there being many versions of client out there. The effect is that those that get upset will be a bigger loss than the impact of this outage, which with a cache default of 0.3 days bridges > 7 hours, plus whatever is work in progress is not enormous.

Again, how should would BOINC *simply* increase it's cache? You propose, you tell the Berkeley developers how that then would fit in with everything else. Meantime, the present clients have a mechanism to back off and autonomously try later at programmed increments. The message to back off for the planned downtime was already proposed way up in this thread. But then, what if the outage lasts not 11 hours, but 6? What if it gets last minute cancelled? Present security rules dictate that clients initiate connection, not the server. Once a client is told to back off by X time it will stick to that.

At any rate, what you want is not viable. That is what my question inferred.

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Re: Extended BOINC Server Outage Planned from 21:30 UTC Jan 13 through 8:00 UTC Jan 14th

I'm sorry maybe it was working fine, what happens is that the pages do not contain many threads. So I just have to keep selecting the next page of threads

z000, you can set in the forum prefs how many threads and posts are listed on one page in the forum preferences. Default is IIRC 20 for those signed in and 10 for those who are not [guests].

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