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oliverstirling
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

Whilst I realise this may not be of any help at all and probably too simplistic I'll outline the steps I took to get Boinc running in dual boot. Whilst I did this for Vista and 7 the principle should be the same.

1. Stop Boinc and check that the science apps have stopped running. If neccessary check in the task manager.

2. Locate data folder for Boinc. For me this was C:\ProgramData\Boinc (you will probably have to enable 'show hidden files' which can be done through help, the control panel or in XP through the Tools menu: Tools -> folder options -> view)

3. Make a copy of this folder. As has been mentioned earlier you will need to place it in a drive or partition that both operating systems can see. In my instance my Beta 7 installation couldn't see the HDD with Vista installed on so I used a 3rd drive that was visible to both i.e. E:\Boinc

4. This is probably where the CA's will wash their hands of me. At this time you can either a) uninstall your old boinc installation (yes I know you can change the config files but it was too much hassle for me and didn't work when I tried it) or b) download the newest version of Boinc from http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php and run the install (which will overwrite existing config files etc)
As pictured by Didactylos, choose the advanced options during the install process and set the data directory to wherever you copied your Boinc data folder to. For me this was E:\Boinc

5. After the install is complete Boinc should run as normal on o.s. #1. If you followed step b you should see a message in the boinc manager detailing the version change. Your original Boinc data folder (by default located at C:\ProgramData\Boinc) is now obsolete but don't get rid of it just yet.

6. Boot into o.s. #2. Go to http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php and download Boinc. Install using the advanced options again and specify where your data folder is located. As you are in a different o.s. your drive letters may have been moved around. In my case seeing as my 7 installation couldn't see my vista HDD my boinc data folder was now located on D:\Boinc

7. After install run Boinc. After running benchmarks it should start the tasks from where they stopped in o.s. #1. You might see a line in the messages tab that indicates Boinc has detected an o.s. change but other than that you shouldn't have any problems...in theory.

I apologise if this is too simplistic for you but I'm just outlining the steps that worked for me. Hope this is of some help.
[Jun 24, 2009 8:19:39 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

This is the last I have to say on the matter: re-read my original request. I made it very clear I did NOT want to be a guinea pig or embark on some experiment with an uncertain outcome. I made it clear that I only wanted to do it if the process and outcome was well-defined.

I was using 5.10 in Windows 2000 because that was the original version that I installed. I had apparently downloaded the newer version at some point, but didn't install it. I didn't KNOW that when I installed it in Windows XP, however, assuming I was using the most recent I had downloaded.

The consequence was that when I pointed the XP install at the same data, it proceeded to produce "computation errors" for every single dataset that had been downloaded. What was worse, those computation errors counted as COMPLETED RESULTS, and so BOINC declared I had exceeded my daily quota of 32 results and wouldn't accept any more. I was doubly screwed.

When I updated the Windows 2000 install to the newer version, I wound up with a situation where one or the other install would refuse to connect to the data. It appeared to be some bizarre authentication or file-permissions issue, but again this is precisely the sort of uncertain outcome I specifically said I wanted to avoid. The only way I was able to side-step the problem was to step up my migration process and give up on Windows 2000 and the dual-booting entirely.

My experience has demonstrated that the process of maintaining BOINC in a dual-boot Windows situation is anything but simple or obvious. I tried a process that duplicated what OliverSterling describes, and that FAILED for me. Clearly no one has ever really bothered to test this process, and I was misled to think perhaps it had been. I wasted much time as a consequence, which is exactly what I said I wanted to avoid.
[Jun 26, 2009 7:21:28 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

VulcanTourist, you can learn from this experience.

1) First, provide all the relevant information. Using BOINC 5.10 is highly relevant.

2) Don't ask questions in a hostile manner. No doubt you believe your request was perfectly reasonable and polite. It does not read that way.

3) Don't ask a question and then vanish for a month. Had you spend a little time to ask some follow up questions and tell us about any early problems you encountered, you could have saved a considerable amount of time.

Your problem was not bizarre, esoteric or even surprising. What you fail to take into account is that no FAQ can cover every possible scenario, and a simple question at the right time would have solved your problems. All your massive posts demanding an easy answer are just a complete waste of your time. You spent more time writing them than you ever would have working with us to fix the actual problem.
[Jun 26, 2009 8:22:00 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
JmBoullier
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

4) Do not expect to find a FAQ for a question which is not Frequently asked! smile

A search on "dual boot" in the Boinc Agent Support forum shows that
1. It's not so frequently asked
2. Most of the time the question is for a dual boot between Windows and Linux where it would not work, even if you could install Boinc in both systems pointing at the same data directory: the WUs for each platform are not compatible.
3. In the rare cases where the question was asked for two Windows systems it was essentially asked or answered to avoid that both installations could be seen as a single one by the servers.

I would add that this kind of installation smells "trial and error" from the beginning and should not be envisaged unless one does it for fun and essentially for the sake of saying "It's possible, I have done it!".

Sorry for the confusion. Jean.
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[Jun 26, 2009 10:52:21 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ingleside
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

Well, I did for a short time run v5.10.45 as dual-boot between win2003 and vista... But I've never run v6 as dual-boot, for obvious reasons, since v6 doesn't work in win2003.

The "easier" setup is very likely v5, since it's less chance of running into any access-right-problems, but it can still happen. This should be more or less like this:

1; In OS-#1, install BOINC v5.10.45 to example d:\boinc , making sure the BOINC-directory is on a non-OS-partition for both OS.
2; Suspend network in BOINC-Manager.
3; Stop BOINC, and make a backup-copy.
4; In OS-#2, make sure it's the same d-disk, and also install BOINC-v5.10.45 to same as in #1.
5; If it runs correctly, go back to OS-#1 and make sure if it works here also.
6; If it works in both, you can enable network.
7; If it doesn't work in either OS, you'll maybe need to re-store the backup.
After restoring the backup, and before you starts BOINC again,, open-up a cmd-window (someone likes to call it a dos-prompt).

Type: (with enter or return after each line)

d:
cd \
cacls boinc /e /t /g everyone:f

Various lines will flash-through in the window, until finished.
8; Try to run BOINC now in both OS, and hopefully it now works, and you can enable network-connection again.


For v6, the method is a little different, but it should be something like this:

1; Do NOT use v6.2.xx , there's a known bug in v6.2.xx that screws-up access-rights and gives you problems. You'll need to use v6.6.xx or later.
2; YOU MUST SELECT "Allow all users on this computer to manage BOINC". Please note, the accounts BOINC makes is non-standard, and under a different OS these will show up as "Unknown-something", and you won't have the neccessary access-rights.
3; In OS-#1, install BOINC v6.6.xx with example d:\boinc as data-directory, making sure the data-directory is on a non-OS-partition for both OS. The program-directory can be left at default "c:\program files\boinc"
4; Suspend network in BOINC-Manager, possibly after you've re-booted back to same OS.
5; Stop BOINC, and make a backup-copy.
6; In OS-#2, make sure it's the same d-disk, and install BOINC-v6.6.xx so uses same data-directory as in #3. Program-directory can be left at "c:\program files\boinc"
7; If it runs correctly, go back to OS-#1 and make sure if it works here also.
8; If it works in both, you can enable network.
9; If it doesn't work, you'll likely need to re-store backup-copy, make sure BOINC isn't running, opening-up a cmd-prompt and type:

d:
cd \
cacls boinc /e /t /g everyone:f

Various lines will flash-through in the window, until finished.
10; Try to run BOINC now in both OS, and hopefully it now works, and you can enable network-connection again.


For both v5 and v6, I'll highly recommend to use a non-OS-partition for the BOINC (data)-directory, especially since both Vista and Win7 has a tendency to hide one or more disk-partitions, and the access-rights will be changed on the disk you installs the OS.

For anyone trying this, please report any success or failures.
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"I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might."
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Ingleside at Jun 26, 2009 2:11:57 PM]
[Jun 26, 2009 2:08:37 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

We do not recommend either approach.

The official recommended version is BOINC 6.2.28, and will remain so for some time.

Ingleside, I am sorry you have personally experienced access rights problems, but if you have a hammer, not every problem is a nail. Your continued advice to members to use an unsupported version is unhelpful and in my belief, causes more harm than good.

Your advice also compromises BOINC security. If you do not understand enough to do this safely, I recommend you do not attempt this scenario at all.
[Jun 27, 2009 2:16:16 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Ingleside
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

We do not recommend either approach.

Very few users will try a dual-boot approach anyway, so not being recommended isn't really a problem. For the few users that's interested in trying on the other hand, my method will atleast have fairly good odds of working, and if it really doesn't work, you'll have a working backup.

The official recommended version is BOINC 6.2.28, and will remain so for some time.

Ingleside, I am sorry you have personally experienced access rights problems, but if you have a hammer, not every problem is a nail. Your continued advice to members to use an unsupported version is unhelpful and in my belief, causes more harm than good.

Then it comes to dual-boot-installs, the only "nail" is access-rights, as long as you're using the exact same BOINC-clients on both OS. Using a "hammer" that is "known to not correctly set access-rights" doesn't look like a good choise to me in this scenario then another "hammer" that is "known to correctly set access-rights" is available...

So, to minimize the chance of problems, I'm recommending to use the "correct hammer" for this particular type of "nail".



For multi-project-users, downgrading BOINC-client can be dangerous since it can trash lots of work, and often isn't an option anyway. Since it's really no good way to know if WCG-users runs multiple projects, and often a search on BoincStats doesn't show any user at all due to WCG-forum-name can be different than account crunches under, to be on the safe side I'm treating all users as multi-project-users.

Even if single-project-users, and they're posted the log showing this, in most instances downgrading doesn't help anyway. Appart for CUDA-related bugs and bugs already present in older BOINC-clients, I'm not aware of any bugs in v6.6.xx-clients. Well, you do have the two "policy-changes" of "only display run-time" and "multiply #cpu with 'write to disk about ever n seconds'".

Do you know any other bugs in v6.6.36? If so, please report them to either the BOINC bug-database, or to the BOINC alpha-email-list (or possibly the dev-email-list).

Your advice also compromises BOINC security. If you do not understand enough to do this safely, I recommend you do not attempt this scenario at all.

Changing access-rights is only neccessary if the major steps (#1-#6 for v5 and #1-#8 for v6) doesn't work. For anyone that really wants to get dual-boot to work correctly, I did include it. If any user doesn't know about access-rights, they shouldn't try dual-booting anyway.


BTW, you're claiming I'm always recommending users to run "unsupported" BOINC-clients... Do you have any proof of this?

AFAIK the only times I've recommended any BOINC-clients are:
1; To use v5.10.45 for win2000/win2003/win2008-DC-users. For these, v6 doesn't work at all, so there aren't any other option.
2; To users that is running multiple projects I've recommended to keep their current version, or to someone that knew used CUDA to upgrade from v6.4.x.
3; Well, I did recommend Sekerob to upgrade from his current v6.6.2x-alpha-build to a later one... cool
4; AFAIK once I posted something along the lines of "if doing such and such also doesn't work with v6.2.28, you'll likely hit that particular bug that's fixed in a later client, so should try a later client afterwards if v6.2.28 still doesn't work..."

Ah, I did post a recommendation back in April:
For anyone running v6.2.xx or v5.10.45, there aren't really any good reasons to upgrade at this point, except if you've got a CUDA-capable card you wants to use...

I'll gladly make the same recommendation to-day, with a couple slight changes:
For anyone running v6.2.xx or v5.10.45 without any serious problems, there aren't really any good reasons to upgrade at this point, except if you've got a CUDA-capable card you wants to use, or wants to run the SMP-application of Aqua.

Can with no difficulty also add:
For anyone running v6.6.xx without any serious problems, there aren't really any good reasons to downgrade at this point.
For multi-project-users, downgrading can in many instances screw-up things, and some projects doesn't even work with older BOINC-clients. For these reasons, downgrading is not recommended for multi-project-users.
----------------------------------------


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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Ingleside at Jun 27, 2009 3:02:31 PM]
[Jun 27, 2009 2:55:16 PM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

We do not recommend either approach.

The official recommended version is BOINC 6.2.28, and will remain so for some time.



I have read through this post and have been left with, what I consider, inconsistent information. In particular, the official recommended version of BOINC being 6.2.28 when I read earlier to not use 6.2.xx due to known problems. If this is the case, how can BOINC 6.2.28 be the official recommended version. Before moving to 6.6.36, I believing I was using BOINC 6.6.28 until BOINC 6.6.36 became the recommended version to use.

At least this is what I thought was the case until I read the Community Advisors still recommending version 6.2.28 which is supposed to have problems. What is correct? I will not move off 6.6.36 unless I am given a good reason. cool
[Jun 29, 2009 3:51:56 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

dkt, Ingleside is not representing the official view. He is just any other member, and I strongly disagree with his claim.

BOINC 6.2.28 is the officially supported Windows version. There is no confusion or ambiguity - the official version is the version you can download here: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/reg/ms/viewDownloadAgain.do

From time to time, Berkeley may recommend other versions. These versions have not been tested and approved by World Community Grid. You use them at your own risk. Berkeley "recommends" a new version every other week - we do not consider them stable or properly tested.

If you install BOINC 6.2.28 and have the correct cc_config.xml file, then BOINC Manager will only inform you about World Community Grid recommended releases, instead of nagging you every time Berkeley find yet another bug.
[Jun 29, 2009 4:08:32 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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Re: Need specific instructions for using BOINC in dual boot scenario

What then is BOINC 6.6.36? I have not had any problems with this version. When we get message alerts saying a new version of BOINC is available, what are we supposed to do? I want a clear honest answer. cool
[Jun 29, 2009 4:17:53 AM]   Link   Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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